Stick with Hassy or go Bronica?

In article ,
(Ted Azito) wrote:

Fil Ament

snip
and yet the 6x6 (Bronica at least) has the ability to use 645 backs.....
but a 645 camera won't allow you the use of a 6x6 back if you need it.
Like my work does.

The SQ will not take the ETR backs nor will the GS-1 take either.


The SQAI has its own 6.45 backs and 6.45 screens so you can use it for
6.45 as well as 6x6.

Am I a little disappointed in some (many) choices Bronica made since
the 80s? Yes. Moreso than Hasselblad.

Well Bronica went through several companies from GMI, Omega & finally Tamron.
It was Bronica's choice to remove distribution from Omega and move it to
Tamron now they are discontinued. I have the SQAI I doubt I will ever purchase another
MF system.

And....there are Hasselblads
over me every night, on the moon. That's worth _something_.

Not much.

Take Care.
--
The joy of a forever Unknown Artist is the mystery and potential
of a Blank canvas.

This is a provision for the mind's eye.
I see the lights go on, but realize of course no one's home.

Fil Ament wrote in message ...



If you already have the Bronica SQ and are happy with it, that's one
thing. The original poster asked if he should trade his Hasselblad for
Bronica, which is a different issue. Bronica has not established that
it is more rugged than Hasselblad, that its optics are better, or that
you can rent Bronica stuff as easily as Hasselblad, or that they have
a wider line of useful items to choose from in the SQ System. Those
are the kinds of things that would make someone want to trade. And
while Hasselblad isn't innocent of it, Bronica is really out on a limb
with four wholly isolated systems to support.

It's my guess that Hasselblad will be supporting the 500 series
cameras after all four Bronica lines are wholly defunct. Bronica has
market share with a few different groups but the people whose work
gets in the magazines are not buying Bronica, they're very loyal to
Hasselblad. Buying Bronica for 645, Hasselblad for square and RB/RZ
for 6x7 makes a lot more sense to most people.

Ted Azito wrote:

Bronica has
market share with a few different groups but the people whose work
gets in the magazines are not buying Bronica, they're very loyal to
Hasselblad.

And mechanics who work for a living aren't using craftsman tools, yet they
still work fine for amateurs who can't afford commercial grade tools. If
you don't use the tools a lot, either one will hold up fine. It's better to
have the right wrench than only own one size because you can't afford any
more of the better ones. If you do it for a living, it does makes sense to
own the best/most reliable type.

Stacey

What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just the
80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF lens?
Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit? BRBR


Ben,

From my personal experience with Hasselblad I think you had a run of bad luck
with yours. I have owned the 903SWC and the 503CW. Both were extremely
reliable. I purchased the 903 used; the 503CW new. Purchasing these things
used often means that you're going to have plan on a CLA as a minimum,--just to
be sure. It's one of the factors you have to consider when you are
buying,--and offering your bottom price.

Optics. I can't say enough good things about Zeiss optics. The biggest
detractor is obviously the price. There is nothing inexpensive about
them,--period. However, with the existence of eBay, you have the opportunity
of turning them around if you need the cash in a hurry and sell them for close
to your purchase price (if you didn't pay retail for them in the first place).


Hasselblad's biggest plus to me is their system. Being also a 35mm Nikon user
for decades, I have become accustomed to camera manufacturers being in the
'system' business. Hassy is certainly one of those. That also means that used
gear is a lot more available than any other MF brand.

Here is what my 503CW lens kit consisted of:

Zeiss 40mm f/4 CFE FLE (a beautiful lens,--a close substitute for the 38mm
f/3.5 Biogon but BIG filter requirements (93mm)).

Zeiss 100mm f/3.5 CF (incredibly sharp, and NO distortion). A nicer lens than
the 80 in my opinion.

Zeiss 250mm f/5.6 CF Superachromat. Wow. Incredibly sharp, and worth every
cent.

All these with the Prontor shutters are highly reliable. I never experienced a
lock up,--being careful of course when changing lenses and mounting extension
tubes.

Magazines. I always felt they were the weakest element in the Hassy system,
but also one of the better features. Imagine being able to change from color
to black/white, etc. in about ten seconds. As with anything that experiences
the most wear, you have to expect adjustment issues with them periodically.

I loved the mechanicals of the Hasselblad. No batteries save the one in my
PME45 meter/prism. Ergonomics,--sure, as someone mentioned earlier, the focus
is opposite Nikon,--but it's intuitive, obvious, and the coupled
aperture/shutter system (if you chose) is rapid. I worked exclusively in EVs
with the meter and the lenses.

You can easily spend about $8000 for what you want/need in the way of backs and
lenses and a first rate body like the 503CW,--but you can easily get it back if
need be through eBay.

I just sold off my Hasselblad gear last week and this week on eBay. It became
too much weight for me (after breaking a couple of vertebrae 18 months ago) to
deal with,--filling a Billingham 445 bag. I will miss the quality of that
stuff. I'm also a landscape/architecture guy. Optics,--simply have to be
seen! Remember, that's the name of the entire game,--optics.

Dan Lindsay
Santa Barbara, CA

I worked as a mechanic once and had a mixed tool box of Snap-On,
Craftsman, Proto, MAC, Armstrong, and Stahlwille. I didn't buy
anything off the tool truck, which is why I could afford to go to
school and get out of the wrench turning business. The difference is
that the tools all interchanged-you could use a Snap-On ratchet, a
Sears extension and a Stahlwille socket. Since the end of the
screwmount Leica and Pentax threads, that hasn't been the case in the
camera world.

German optics are not better than the best Japanese optics. They are
a little different in that certain engineering tradeoffs were made
differently. This has been gone over elsewhere to death.

In article ,
(Ted Azito) wrote:

I worked as a mechanic once and had a mixed tool box of Snap-On,
Craftsman, Proto, MAC, Armstrong, and Stahlwille. I didn't buy
anything off the tool truck, which is why I could afford to go to
school and get out of the wrench turning business. The difference is
that the tools all interchanged-you could use a Snap-On ratchet, a
Sears extension and a Stahlwille socket. Since the end of the
screwmount Leica and Pentax threads, that hasn't been the case in the
camera world.

I've probably turned wrenches as long as you have been alive. You can mix
and match the parts, but when the combination fails, it's always the Sears
(Craftsman) part that broke.

Back to MF.

one_of_many wrote:

In article ,
(Ted Azito) wrote:

I worked as a mechanic once and had a mixed tool box of Snap-On,
Craftsman, Proto, MAC, Armstrong, and Stahlwille. I didn't buy
anything off the tool truck, which is why I could afford to go to
school and get out of the wrench turning business.

I've probably turned wrenches as long as you have been alive. You can mix
and match the parts, but when the combination fails, it's always the Sears
(Craftsman) part that broke.



Exactly.

I make no pretenses that the Kiev cameras I use are "good tools", they are
strictly amateur cameras and are likely to fail at any time. But they -are-
a brand of tools I can afford to have more than one size of, so are much
more useful to me than a 'blad with one lens would be.
--

Stacey

Working with bad tools is a curse. The sad part is that there's no
reason the Kievs couldn't be excellent cameras-their designs are sound
and they have the skills. Put in some discipline and QC, and get rid
of the vodka, and you'd have as good a workforce as the Asians at
least.

I broke very few Craftsman tools, because I mostly bought the black
finished air ratchet extensions and sockets. It's a little known fact
that some jet engine facilities don't allow chrome plated hand tools,
because they could flake and take out a bearing or seal. Craftsman
tools are sometimes excellent, and sometimes crappy, because they
outsource production to various vendors.

FWIW Snap-On "ain't all that" strengthwise-Stahlwille beats 'em every
time.

Ted Azito wrote:

Craftsman
tools are sometimes excellent, and sometimes crappy,

Same with FSU gear and why someone wouldn't use either of them for a living.

--

Stacey

I found it hard for anybody who got used to Zeiss to accept any other lens.

Angry Angel wrote in message m...
This is a more thinking-out-loud post than a serious question- I just wanted
thoughts from those who might have more experience.

I have a Nikon 35mm outfit, and can see that being replaced by digital in
the next five years. I have access to a darkroom with large format enlarger
and black and white print processor, so I decided to explore black and white
medium format photography.

I got a good deal on a Hasselblad 500c/m- with 80mm T* and PM (45 degree)
prism, Accumat D screen, 16mm extension tube, proxar, 2x backs etc.

I started by spending 10% of the cost of the kit on a mirror foam
replacement by Hasselblad UK. Then the backs both had their light seals go,
so I bought new seal kits and new darkslides. I then had various jamming
problems (lens jam with extension tube, body jam, etc). I am in a love/hate
relationship with the machine. I don't feel like I can rely on it. But I
like its looks and it feels like it should last a while. However, when
Hasselblad UK looked at it for the mirror foam, they said it was 'running
dry' and needed a service (which would cost more than another secondhand
body).

I currently use medium format for still life, landscape and portraits. I
want to add a 40mm or 50mm lens to my outfit, for landscapes. However,
looking at the price of Zeiss glass has put me off- I can get a Bronica
SQ-AI outfit with 80 and 50/40mm lens, AE prism, speed grip, spare backs,
etc. for about the same price once I sell the Hasselblad kit I already have.

I tried out the SQ-AI (handled it, didn't shoot any film), and it seems
quite 'plasticky', but the lens felt much nicer to my 35mm-accustomed hands
than the stiff metal Hasselblad C lens. I don't think I would use AE all
that much, as it is unusable with mirror lock-up (which I use for 95% of
shots). I also would need at least one extension tube (and the Bronica ones
are very expensive).

I don't feel 100% happy with the reliability of the Hasselblad, but I am OK
with the time it takes to set up for still lives, etc. I love the bright
viewfinder image. I'm dreading a malfunction of the mechanics that results
in a dead lens and body- I feel electronics would need less servicing, and
love the shutter speeds down to 16 seconds on the Bronica.

What do people think are my best options? Keep the Hasselblad with just the
80mm and keep wideangle for 35mm? Keep it and buy an expensive 50mm CF lens?
Sell it and buy a Bronica outfit?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Ben