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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit
less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? -- Alfred Molon Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#2
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
In article , Alfred Molon wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. -- Sandman[.net] |
#3
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
In article ,
Sandman wrote: In article , Alfred Molon wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. Cooked you mean? The DR graph is a tad "swawy"... ;-p https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olym...--Measurements -- teleportation kills |
#4
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
In article , Sandman
wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. there is. |
#5
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
On 26/05/2017 5:50 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Sandman wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. there is. Yes. and also the comment that: "The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) makes no sense. Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics" http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...M1%20Mark%20II But wait - Olympus appears to have done so. So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files (which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely). So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you /think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the result, then enjoy. |
#6
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
In article , Me
wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. there is. Yes. and also the comment that: "The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) makes no sense. it does if you think about what they're probably doing, which is simply overexposing (their claimed lower iso), thereby blowing the highlights, resulting in less dynamic range. based on the above description, the native iso is around iso 200, but actual tests would need to be done to find out what it really is Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics" http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...OM-D%20E-M1%20 Mark%20II But wait - Olympus appears to have done so. So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files (which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely). So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you /think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the result, then enjoy. of course they're bull****ting. olympus is well known for that, although nowhere near as much as sigma. |
#7
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
In article , Me says...
On 26/05/2017 5:50 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Sandman wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. there is. Yes. and also the comment that: "The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) makes no sense. Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics" http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...M1%20Mark%20II But wait - Olympus appears to have done so. So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files (which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely). So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you /think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the result, then enjoy. .... what have you been smoking? -- Alfred Molon Olympus E-series DSLRs and micro 4/3 forum at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/ http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site |
#8
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
On 27/05/2017 6:32 AM, Alfred Molon wrote:
In article , Me says... On 26/05/2017 5:50 PM, nospam wrote: In article , Sandman wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? Unless the camera maker doesn't specify this specifically, there is no way to know when the sensor output is boosted or not. there is. Yes. and also the comment that: "The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) makes no sense. Anyway, as Scotty said - "Ye cannae change laws of physics" http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PD...M1%20Mark%20II But wait - Olympus appears to have done so. So either they're bull****ting about actual ISO setting (which they've done before) or bull****ting by applying noise reduction to raw files (which they've also done before), or bull****ting about both (likely). So if you /think/ when it's set at ISO 6400 - it actually is, and you /think/ there's no NR applied to raw files, and are happy with the result, then enjoy. ... what have you been smoking? You don't believe that if something tests better than the laws of physics dictate is possible, then some trickery or deception is going on? Sure it could be "error" by the manufacturer - but they seem to always err on the side of making the camera seem to perform better than it really does rather than worse - it is deliberate. In the link I posted above, then the plot for "ideal 4/3" format assumes that every pixel is captured and recorded and there's no read noise / electronic noise degrading the dynamic range. Yet that camera appears to perform better than is possible - better than "ideal". The loss of dynamic range as ISO increases is inevitable "shot noise" - there's nothing that can be done to avoid it. |
#9
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
On 2017-05-25 18:03, Alfred Molon wrote:
The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? The "base" would be the ISO where the analog and digital gain are both 1 (0 dB). I've never seen a camera maker publish that. The analog gain stage is a noise source in itself - even at 0 dB - but unavoidable. For my cameras (DSLR's) the base appears to be ISO 160 based on various noise graphs. But frankly anywhere from 100 to 400 appears the same in normal viewing. 800 and shadow noise is discernible in processing at 100% zoom but invisible in prints or display. -- "If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics." ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing. |
#10
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The base ("native") ISO of a sensor
On 2017-05-26 13:18, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2017-05-25 18:03, Alfred Molon wrote: The Olympus E-M1 II has the lowest noise at ISO 64 (at the cost of a bit less dynamic range) but the highest dynamic range at ISO 200. So what would be the native or base ISO of the sensor? How would that be defined? The "base" would be the ISO where the analog and digital gain are both 1 (0 dB). I've never seen a camera maker publish that. The analog gain stage is a noise source in itself - even at 0 dB - but unavoidable. For my cameras (DSLR's) the base appears to be ISO 160 based on various noise graphs. But frankly anywhere from 100 to 400 appears the same in normal viewing. 800 and shadow noise is discernible in processing at 100% zoom but invisible in prints or display. Although this post disputes what I wrote above - a lot to learn there. http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/...ry/#unity_gain -- "If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics." ..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing. |
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