Photographying a church

I have been asked to photograph the families of my church parish for a
photo directory. I was asked because I do family portraits on the side.
I have 99% of all the equipment, I own the lights, possible backgrounds,
and I shoot medium format. My problem is that I have never shot a
family in such a sterile environment before. Normally I am
photographing families outside.

How do I position a Mom, Dad, and four kids? Do I simply need stools of
different heights? Should I have some standing and other sitting? Any
and all tips are more then welcome.

Sam
--
http://www.miltonstreet.com

How do I position a Mom, Dad, and four kids? Do I simply need stools of
different heights? Should I have some standing and other sitting? Any
and all tips are more then welcome.

If you're asking that question, maybe you shouldn't be doing the job.
I think it was Clint Eastwood who said it best - "A man's got to know
hos limitations.'

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 at 15:55 GMT, Randall Ainsworth wrote:
How do I position a Mom, Dad, and four kids? Do I simply need stools
of different heights? Should I have some standing and other sitting?
Any and all tips are more then welcome.

If you're asking that question, maybe you shouldn't be doing the job.
I think it was Clint Eastwood who said it best - "A man's got to know
hos limitations.'

Based on the view point you put forth, one should never try something
new. Did you ever stop to think that I might have ideas as to how to do
it, but was looking for insight from people that have done this type of
thing before?

I just realized that I might have interpreted what you wrote
incorrectly. Maybe that was your way of saying that doing a job like
this is nothing more then a simplified version shooting one family's
pictures. From experience, failed experience at that, I know that doing
"production" work like a church shoot is VERY different from the way I,
personally, do family/individual photos. Have you ever done production
work like this before to backup view point?

Did you posting rub me the wrong way, yea. But then I can also see
where my initial posting was not the best phrased, either. My objective
is simple: gather information from creditable sources, if you are a
creditable source of knowledge on this subject, you might have a point!

Sam

Relax Sam, what's the big deal? You're making more of this then you need
to. Just make sure your focus is on the money. I have put people in a fake
church setting using Photo Shop and nobody knew except the client. And they
loved it!

focus on the money = in focus.

Based on the view point you put forth, one should never try something
new. Did you ever stop to think that I might have ideas as to how to do
it, but was looking for insight from people that have done this type of
thing before?

If you don't understand the basic principles of portraiture, you're
starting off in the minus column.

I just realized that I might have interpreted what you wrote
incorrectly. Maybe that was your way of saying that doing a job like
this is nothing more then a simplified version shooting one family's
pictures. From experience, failed experience at that, I know that doing
"production" work like a church shoot is VERY different from the way I,
personally, do family/individual photos. Have you ever done production
work like this before to backup view point?

I haven't done church directory work (I don't want the hassle) but I
had a studio for 16+ years and have done photography in many forms
since 1966.

Did you posting rub me the wrong way, yea. But then I can also see
where my initial posting was not the best phrased, either. My objective
is simple: gather information from creditable sources, if you are a
creditable source of knowledge on this subject, you might have a point!

Understanding principles is important. Learning by doing when you're
charging people money is not a good way to learn.

I have to agree with the above respondents. If you have to ask then don't
do it. Rather practice in ones own time and expense, the quickest way to
learn.

To show I'm not totally angst, just bear in mind that most dark wooden
churches suck up an awful lot of light. Posing and modelling is as per any
other scenario.

Upon rereading your post, you ask how to jazz up a church local. _Don't_.
If that's what they want, that's what they want. Church folk tend often to
be happy with the banal. Some gums, some teeth, what else matters. They
often aren't art connoisseurs. Never-the-less a sunny day in the church
gardens will offer lighting, ambience, and a general bonhomie that will
auger well with the spirit of the occasion. You no doubt will be doing this
for next to nothing so this may offer the most expedient solution.
--
Otzi


"Randall Ainsworth" wrote in message
...
Based on the view point you put forth, one should never try something
new. Did you ever stop to think that I might have ideas as to how to do
it, but was looking for insight from people that have done this type of
thing before?

If you don't understand the basic principles of portraiture, you're
starting off in the minus column.

I just realized that I might have interpreted what you wrote
incorrectly. Maybe that was your way of saying that doing a job like
this is nothing more then a simplified version shooting one family's
pictures. From experience, failed experience at that, I know that doing
"production" work like a church shoot is VERY different from the way I,
personally, do family/individual photos. Have you ever done production
work like this before to backup view point?

I haven't done church directory work (I don't want the hassle) but I
had a studio for 16+ years and have done photography in many forms
since 1966.

Did you posting rub me the wrong way, yea. But then I can also see
where my initial posting was not the best phrased, either. My objective
is simple: gather information from creditable sources, if you are a
creditable source of knowledge on this subject, you might have a point!

Understanding principles is important. Learning by doing when you're
charging people money is not a good way to learn.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 at 00:16 GMT, otzi wrote:

Upon rereading your post, you ask how to jazz up a church local. _Don't_.

Man, oh man am I bad at explaining myself, let me try again...

I have done plenty of individual and family portraits. I have shot
individual portraits both on location and in my make shift studio, I own
three White-Lightening strobes and a couple of back drops. I have only
shot family portraits on location, never in my make shift studio because
the lack of space to be creative.

For this church shoot, I plain to keep things as sterile as possible:
two lights, one 45 degrees of to the left as main and the second 10
degrees off to the right at one and a half stops under as fill. All the
pictures will be head and shoulder shots. I know exactly how to post
one and two people, I can manage three, but how does one post a family
of six?

Lets say I have a father 6'4", mother 5"6', and four kids ranging from
2"6' to 5"10', do I have them all sitting, some sitting and some
standing? Keep in mind the final objective is a photo directory, so I
want as little variant in each image as possible. What equipment should
I have? Do I only need to have a fair number of stools for folks to sit
on, or should I also have boxes for folks to stand on? Is there a
formula folks have used to help insure that all the images look pretty
much the same?

I guess my point is that I know all the basics; I have not done
something like this before and am hoping that there is someone out there
that has which could provide some insight on does and don't as to make
it run smoothly.

Sam

For this church shoot, I plain to keep things as sterile as possible:
two lights, one 45 degrees of to the left as main and the second 10
degrees off to the right at one and a half stops under as fill. All the
pictures will be head and shoulder shots. I know exactly how to post
one and two people, I can manage three, but how does one post a family
of six?

You need to learn about lighting.

I have been asked to photograph the families of my church parish for a
photo directory. I was asked because I do family portraits on the side.
I have 99% of all the equipment, I own the lights, possible backgrounds,
and I shoot medium format. My problem is that I have never shot a
family in such a sterile environment before. Normally I am
photographing families outside.

How do I position a Mom, Dad, and four kids? Do I simply need stools of
different heights? Should I have some standing and other sitting? Any
and all tips are more then welcome.


You want a weeks worth portrait workshop training in a usenet post?
The good news is that you are bound to be better than 99% of the
church directory shooters out there, whenever I see some god awful
example of clueless lighting and graceless posing its a church photog,
so by asking at least you show some hope of stepping up.

Its not a matter of simply different heights, people are different
heights and a group arrangement tends to be better when the heads are
placed in compositionally appropriate positions.

The classic is the pyramid. Dad (typically the alpha) at the peak.
Even if dad is some wilty milk toast and mom is a mountainous weight
lifter six inches taller social convention expects him to be Mr
Familyman at the top of the heap.

dad
mom
kid
baby
kid
kid

Ideally you don't want any two heads on the same level. Certainly not
two heads of the same level NEXT to each other.

For close ups of the parents, kids together etc, the taller one's
mouth is usually at the level of the second's eyes.

Ideally you want everybody the same distance from the camera. I know
several photogs that will string from the tripod to the forehead of
each person in a group. string is pulled out to the first posed
person's forehead and pinched, then when he poses the next he holds
the string out and has the person skooch or lean closer. This
prevents distortions in head size, especially when some of these goofs
are using a zoom lens at less than telephoto position, then they have
a kid in back between the folks, and a line of kids in front and the
babies and toddlers on the laps, four deep and you can see that the
ones in front have heads a quarter or more larger than the kid in
back.

adjustable stools are great cause they allow you to possition the seat
height for the height of the person, an inch or two difference makes a
major difference in how the body fits, most of the time the seat is a
bit to high, we are used to that so we don't really notice it, put
someone in a seat too low and you see how they don't look right, (just
came from a neighborhood meeting at the local elementary school...)
bad seat height hurts far more than good seat height can help, but its
the best place to start.

go find some scrap lumber, two by wide, wider, widest. you will need
some chunks to place stools on, or feet on, or butts on cause you want
to position two things, each person for themselves, then each person
in relation to the ones next to them. If things get confusing, in a
group shot the more important thing is how each person position
relates to the others. phone books, planks, catalogs, and for Mr and
Mrs Jack Sprat, a huge soup pot might come in handy.

Place the first folks at 45' angle to the camera, especially mom and
dad. I usually 'prom' pose them or spoon them, mom in front of dad,
baby on her lap, toddler on dad'd knee between him and ma, older kid
perhaps standing by dad with hand on his arm. the kids I try to pose
45' the other way.

babies, you will probably have lots of them. (and churchy families
tend to have lots of them and they are radioactive, like heavy metals,
close proximity of a 2 and a 3 quickly hits critical mass, and never
EVER agree to photographing a 3 yo's birthday...)

hold your hand out, palm up and thumb out. place the babies bottom
there with the thumb between the legs. the other hand grabs the
clothing between the shoulder blades, I try to get the mom to use her
three lower fingers while the thumb and forefinger cradle the infants
neck. She now has full control of the child, can tilt him up without
fear of dropping him, and without horrid hunches in her back and
shoulders. NO more Quassimodo mommies, please.

Now that we've cleared that all up, please tell me that you will NOT
place your umbrellas on either side of the camera like it seems they
oughta be, please, (all the regulars on this list are now reaching for
their delete or next button cause they fear I'll dredge up my usual
sermon from my cultish Temple of the One True Light)

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