No one speaks english anymore??

On Sun, 17 Mar 2013 14:37:28 +0100, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
: Rob wrote:
:
: Speaking Swiss/German this chap came up and asked "where's the railway
: station", which I understood, my reply in English "down there" I don't
: know what his thoughts were.
:
: He only understood "railway station".
:
: (Translate that!)

"Bahnhof", nicht wahr?

Bob

On 3/18/2013 7:37 AM, Usenet Account wrote:
On 17/03/2013 10:07 PM, rwalker wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2013 15:46:42 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But
enough people say that they find southern accents incomprehensible
that I have
to believe them.

Bob


I've lived all over the U.S., and I think it's a bit of snobbery
personally.

I recall seeing a bleak British movie filmed in some industrial city,
where the local dialect was used. The movie had English sub-titles
because nobody outside that region (even fellow Brits) could understand
half the dialog.

I recorded that same movie off cable TV, in the early 1990's. Can't
even recall its name, as I only watched it once (it wasn't very good,
in my estimation).

Although, I'm in Nebraska (U.S.A.), I'd no trouble understanding
what was being spoken. Those subtitles were silly, as far as I'm
concerned.

And then there are the Scots!!!

No problems, here.

John

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

rwalker wrote:
On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

And I find your comment is itself is snobbery.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On 2013-03-19 22:05:50 -0700, rwalker said:

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

However, there are times the failure to comprehend that regional
dialect and accent is not a pretense. I can certainly attest that while
I was able understand what cousin D.M. and his wife Stella, with their
native Rock Spring, GA accents were saying, my English born wife Sue
didn't, and Stella was hard pressed to understand Sue.
That certainly didn't have anything to do with snobbery on her part, or
Stella's, but was explained by their lack of familiarity with those
particular accents. Stella and Sue hit it off great, but neither one
had a clue as to what the other was saying. Perhaps that was a form of
linguistic diplomacy, but both D.M. and I acted as interpreters
translating English to English.

--
Regards,

Savageduck

Savageduck wrote:
On 2013-03-19 22:05:50 -0700, rwalker said:

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

However, there are times the failure to comprehend that
regional dialect and accent is not a pretense.

I see it literally on a daily basis and what I see is
never a pretense.

I can
certainly attest that while I was able understand what
cousin D.M. and his wife Stella, with their native Rock
Spring, GA accents were saying, my English born wife Sue
didn't, and Stella was hard pressed to understand Sue.
That certainly didn't have anything to do with snobbery
on her part, or Stella's, but was explained by their
lack of familiarity with those particular accents.
Stella and Sue hit it off great, but neither one had a
clue as to what the other was saying. Perhaps that was a
form of linguistic diplomacy, but both D.M. and I acted
as interpreters translating English to English.

Years ago I often translated English to English for
people visiting the small Yup'ik Eskimo village that I
lived in at the time. School adminstrators and State
officials would hold meetings, and nobody would
understand a word they said, plus they didn't understand
a word that was said to them! In this case most of it
was dialectic rather than the accent.

Today I deal with a number of immigrants who have both
the distinction of unusual accents and dialectic
differences. I am often called on by Thai, Korean, and
Laotian people to talk to someone for them. I do not
know a word in any of those languages, but since I hear
them speaking English all the time it isn't too hard for
me to first figure out what they are trying to say, and
second I can say something in English using words that
they understand. Hence it really is translating English
to English. (Incidentally, someone who is a native
speaker of English from Pakistan or India is almost
impossible for me to understand.)

In regard to anyone in the US genuinely having "no
accent", I had dinner with a Brit this evening, and
mentioned this discussion and that particular point of
view. This Brit has lived in the US off and on for 30
years and thought the idea than any American does not
have an accent to be just hilarous. She often comments
that when she is in England they all tell her she sounds
like a bloody American, and of course in America she is
obviously a Brit.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Wed, 20 Mar 2013 01:05:50 -0400, rwalker
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

I have to say you are wrong. Not often, but sometimes.

There are regional dialects which are incomprehensible to other
speakers of regional dialects. Such combinations are hard to find, but
they do exist.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 22:44:31 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-03-19 22:05:50 -0700, rwalker said:

On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 10:35:14 -0400, Robert Coe wrote:

But that's not at all what Mr Walker said. He said he thought the pretense to
finding the regional dialects of others incomprehensible is a bit of snobbery.

Bob

Exactly.

However, there are times the failure to comprehend that regional
dialect and accent is not a pretense. I can certainly attest that while
I was able understand what cousin D.M. and his wife Stella, with their
native Rock Spring, GA accents were saying, my English born wife Sue
didn't, and Stella was hard pressed to understand Sue.
That certainly didn't have anything to do with snobbery on her part, or
Stella's, but was explained by their lack of familiarity with those
particular accents. Stella and Sue hit it off great, but neither one
had a clue as to what the other was saying. Perhaps that was a form of
linguistic diplomacy, but both D.M. and I acted as interpreters
translating English to English.

And I've heard that certain deep dark accents from the back of
Lancashire can be understood by certain Norwegian speakers. So when
does a dialect cease to become a dialect and become a language?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

Eric Stevens wrote:
So when does a dialect cease to become a dialect and
become a language?

I don't even begin to know the answer to that, but I do
know that linguists are less confused about it than I
am, though even they apparently do have some variations.

There are two Eskimo languages (Inuit and Yupik), with
Yupik being the oldest and the most dialectally
differentiated. It apparently has been in place for
perhaps at least 6 to 8 thousand years. It is broken
down into 5 or 6 major regional dialects, most of which
cannot be understood by those who speak a different
dialect! It took literally decades for Western
observers to determine that it was actually one single
language. The several "amateur" linguists that
initially studied the different dialects were not well
enough grounded to pick up on the similarities, and it
wasn't until academic studies by "real" linguists were
done that it became apparent.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On 2013-03-20 01:14:12 -0700, (Floyd L. Davidson) said:

Eric Stevens wrote:
So when does a dialect cease to become a dialect and
become a language?

I don't even begin to know the answer to that, but I do
know that linguists are less confused about it than I
am, though even they apparently do have some variations.

There are two Eskimo languages (Inuit and Yupik), with
Yupik being the oldest and the most dialectally
differentiated. It apparently has been in place for
perhaps at least 6 to 8 thousand years. It is broken
down into 5 or 6 major regional dialects, most of which
cannot be understood by those who speak a different
dialect! It took literally decades for Western
observers to determine that it was actually one single
language. The several "amateur" linguists that
initially studied the different dialects were not well
enough grounded to pick up on the similarities, and it
wasn't until academic studies by "real" linguists were
done that it became apparent.

Interestingly enough there was this story in the SFGate back in February:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...#photo-4249527


--
Regards,

Savageduck