[Fwd: Is Helix (Chicago) "finished"?]

Dear Brent,

I did not write the comment below. It was posted by "Newbie"
(whoever that is) on a newsgroup. I forwarded it to you out of
fairness.

I've copied your comments to the group.

Regards,
Alan Browne.




Helix Camera Sales wrote:

Mr. Browne.
I apologize for my part in you bad experience at Helix. I was the
person who gave you the wrong information concerning the film Pentax
ist. This company never brought that camera in, partley due to a
general disinterest in the film version of that camera and a perceived
weaker standing of Pentax Cameras compared to our mainstays of Canon and
Nikon. Decisions were made not to stock that camera for we cannot
stock every camera. I do apologize for my lack of knowledge .

As far as the coments on the GR1, It was a very good camera.
Unfortunatly Ricoh ceased importing cameras into the US, You may still
be able to get the camera out of Japan or find one used or directly
imported into the US (Grey Market).

As for your other concerns, I have forwarded your feedback to managment
and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to inform us. Of course we
want customer's experiences at Helix to be pleasent. Your situation
greatly disturbes me.

.
Sincerely, Brent Gevers
Alan Browne wrote:

The message below was posted on news:rec.photo.equipment.35mm


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Is Helix (Chicago) "finished"?
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:48:02 GMT
From: Newbie
Reply-To: Nobody
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm

Helix is a big name old camera store in Chicago. They used to have a
branch near my home, small camera selection but good for films and
developing, which shut down. Yesterday I went to the flagship store
with the intention of looking at Pentax ist and other small slr's after
the discussion here.

As you enter the store, there is the fil developing section. Two or
three staff almost dozing around and no customers. I asked if I could
drop a film and have them mail the prints. One disinterested guy said
the mailing charge would be $7. I said no thanks and moved on to the
main show room.

It is a huge room with very few cameras. There was a receptionist/
security sort of person as you enter, six or seven staff milling around
inside, and no customers.

The first person I asked about SLR's said why do you want film anyway
and put a digital ps in my hand! Then he had to go inside to fetch his
eyeglasses, so he took back the camera from my hand although there were
many staff around, a person at the door, and I was the only customer.

I saw a Contax T3 and asked how in his opinion it compares with Ricoh
GR1. He said Ricoh only makes toasters. Anyway, to the SLR issue. He
called in another person who was supposed be know SLR's. I asked about
Pentax ist; the new expert guy said thet don't have it and it was
digital only anyway. When I insisted that it comes in a film version,
he said mabe in Asia but not here.

By now I had wasted about 30 minutes, so I left.

(On the way home I stopped at Central Camera. What a difference! They
had lots of cameras and customers. Within a few minutes the sales man
had placed a Pentax ist in my hand. So now I know what it looks and
feels like.)

Dear Brent,

I did not write the comment below. It was posted by "Newbie"
(whoever that is) on a newsgroup. I forwarded it to you out of
fairness.

I've copied your comments to the group.

Regards,
Alan Browne.




Helix Camera Sales wrote:

Mr. Browne.
I apologize for my part in you bad experience at Helix. I was the
person who gave you the wrong information concerning the film Pentax
ist. This company never brought that camera in, partley due to a
general disinterest in the film version of that camera and a perceived
weaker standing of Pentax Cameras compared to our mainstays of Canon and
Nikon. Decisions were made not to stock that camera for we cannot
stock every camera. I do apologize for my lack of knowledge .

As far as the coments on the GR1, It was a very good camera.
Unfortunatly Ricoh ceased importing cameras into the US, You may still
be able to get the camera out of Japan or find one used or directly
imported into the US (Grey Market).

As for your other concerns, I have forwarded your feedback to managment
and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to inform us. Of course we
want customer's experiences at Helix to be pleasent. Your situation
greatly disturbes me.

.
Sincerely, Brent Gevers
Alan Browne wrote:

The message below was posted on news:rec.photo.equipment.35mm


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Is Helix (Chicago) "finished"?
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 15:48:02 GMT
From: Newbie
Reply-To: Nobody
Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com
Newsgroups: rec.photo.equipment.35mm

Helix is a big name old camera store in Chicago. They used to have a
branch near my home, small camera selection but good for films and
developing, which shut down. Yesterday I went to the flagship store
with the intention of looking at Pentax ist and other small slr's after
the discussion here.

As you enter the store, there is the fil developing section. Two or
three staff almost dozing around and no customers. I asked if I could
drop a film and have them mail the prints. One disinterested guy said
the mailing charge would be $7. I said no thanks and moved on to the
main show room.

It is a huge room with very few cameras. There was a receptionist/
security sort of person as you enter, six or seven staff milling around
inside, and no customers.

The first person I asked about SLR's said why do you want film anyway
and put a digital ps in my hand! Then he had to go inside to fetch his
eyeglasses, so he took back the camera from my hand although there were
many staff around, a person at the door, and I was the only customer.

I saw a Contax T3 and asked how in his opinion it compares with Ricoh
GR1. He said Ricoh only makes toasters. Anyway, to the SLR issue. He
called in another person who was supposed be know SLR's. I asked about
Pentax ist; the new expert guy said thet don't have it and it was
digital only anyway. When I insisted that it comes in a film version,
he said mabe in Asia but not here.

By now I had wasted about 30 minutes, so I left.

(On the way home I stopped at Central Camera. What a difference! They
had lots of cameras and customers. Within a few minutes the sales man
had placed a Pentax ist in my hand. So now I know what it looks and
feels like.)

Helix is a big name old camera store in Chicago.

I've never been there in person, but last month I spent several
hundred dollars there. I researched on their website first, and
figured out what I wanted. I then called (They have a checkout on
their website, but I refuse to use ANY checkout where I have to enter
my charge card online - there is no such thing as a secure website).

I was ordering Nikonos strobe parts, so I asked for the underwater
department, and I was talking to someone that knew stuff. They
honored the prices on the web, though they did have to backorder one
particular part. (They didn't charge me for it until they shipped it
about 2 weeks later, they didn't add extra postage for sending it
seperately, and their price was still 30-40$ less then anywhere else I
found that part.)

I talking to the salesperson, I mentioned that if they had one
particular part, I would have purchased that as well. He brought up a
"knockoff" by a seperate company they had available. Well, a metal
plate is a metal plate, and it was cheaper than a real Nikon part....

I mentioned a seperate part, where their price was more than I had
seen elsewhere. They didn't bargain, but were not annoyed that I was
going to buy it elsewhere (About $250 less at KEH, as it turned out).

This story on the net is so at odds with my experience that I find it
hard to believe.

Mycroft wrote:

This story on the net is so at odds with my experience that I find it
hard to believe.

Which part do you not believe and why? I noticed that the Helix staff
did not deny a single statement made in that post and actually admitted
giving incorrect information. I give Brent Gevers very high marks for
candor and grace, but that does not make the OP's account untrue.

Mycroft wrote:

This story on the net is so at odds with my experience that I find it
hard to believe.

Which part do you not believe and why? I noticed that the Helix staff
did not deny a single statement made in that post and actually admitted
giving incorrect information. I give Brent Gevers very high marks for
candor and grace, but that does not make the OP's account untrue.

First I'd like to revisit my original post (and then comment on Helix's
response, thanks to Alan Browne for
conveying it):

Helix is a big name old camera store in Chicago...Yesterday I went to
the flagship store with the intention of looking at Pentax ist and other
small slr's after the discussion here.

As you enter the store, there is the fil developing section. Two or
three staff almost dozing around and no customers. I asked if I could
drop a film and have them mail the prints. One disinterested guy said
the mailing charge would be $7. I said no thanks and moved on to the
main show room.

It is a huge room with very few cameras. There was a receptionist/
security sort of person as you enter, six or seven staff milling around
inside, and no customers.

Still how I remember it...

The first person I asked about SLR's said why do you want film
anyway and put a digital ps in my hand!

I have the morning-after feeling and regret writing this. When I asked
about film slr's and the salesperson suggested digitals instead, I
could have said no. I willingly went along with the offer to look at
them. While I remain unconverted, it was a legitimate act of
salesmanship to point out alternatives within my budget.

Then he had to go inside to fetch his eyeglasses, so he took back the
camera from my hand although there were many staff around, a person
at the door, and I was the only customer.

I thought this was crude, unworthy of a high end store. By contrast, at
Central Camera (see later), the salesman, when he saw me absorbed with
the three cameras he had given me (Pentax ist, Contax T3, Olympus
IS-50). left me alone to handle them for several minutes and then came
back to ask if I had any questions.

I saw a Contax T3 and asked how in his opinion it compares with Ricoh
GR1. He said Ricoh only makes toasters. Anyway, to the SLR issue. He
called in another person who was supposed be know SLR's. I asked about
Pentax ist; the new expert guy said they don't have it and it was
digital only anyway. When I insisted that it comes in a film version,
he said mabe in Asia but not here.

Everything about Helix seemed old, outdated, and out of touch on that
day---for example, the salesman thought Contax T3 wouldn't let you set
the aperture and changed his opinion only after I insisted he look at
the camera which was sitting on the shelf behind him---but this was
another exchange that put them in poor light.

Professionals should know what is happening in their field and know
competing products even if they don't sell them. That applies to every
salesman but certainly to the resident SLR expert called in for such
queries. HOWEVER, even if he didn't, if he feels like bothering, it
takes five minutes to find out; if he didn't, all of one second to
admit so. Instead, I encountered a classic case of arrogance: They, who
didn't know, had to be right. I, who had travelled many miles to look
at a specific product, had to be wrong about its existence.

By now I had wasted about 30 minutes, so I left.

OK, it was also 3:58 PM and my parking was about to become illegal at
4:00 PM. "Wasted" is the wrong word. The conversation about
digitals, which I willingly accepted, was educating. Of course they
didn't have any of the small film slr's I wanted to look at (Pentax
*ist and Minolta Maxxum) but I should have called and checked first; I
had assumed a big store must stock such major brands, a lesson for the
future.

(On the way home I stopped at Central Camera. What a difference! They
had lots of cameras and customers. Within a few minutes the sales man
had placed a Pentax ist in my hand. So now I know what it looks and
feels like.)

To be fair, Central Camera is a much smaller space than Helix. Much
less stuff and many fewer people are needed to make it look full. It
also has a better location to attract foot traffic. As for the "dusty"
part another poster noticed, both stores are old and look so. Central
is right under train tracks.


[Communicated by Alan Browne] Helix Camera Sales wrote:
...
I apologize for my part in you bad experience at Helix. I was the
person who gave you the wrong information concerning the film Pentax
ist. This company never brought that camera in, partley due to a
general disinterest in the film version of that camera and a perceived
weaker standing of Pentax Cameras compared to our mainstays of Canon and
Nikon. Decisions were made not to stock that camera for we cannot
stock every camera. I do apologize for my lack of knowledge .

As far as the coments on the GR1, It was a very good camera.
Unfortunatly Ricoh ceased importing cameras into the US, You may still
be able to get the camera out of Japan or find one used or directly
imported into the US (Grey Market).

They are no longer made and are only available used. I knew that going
in. I hadn't asked you to produce a new GR1. I asked you (or other
staff) how Contax T3 which you do stock compares with Ricoh GR1. To
which someone replied that Ricoh only makes toasters and coffee makers.

As for your other concerns, I have forwarded your feedback to managment
and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to inform us. Of course we
want customer's experiences at Helix to be pleasent. Your situation
greatly disturbs me.

Thank you for your kind words and good intentions. I would be happy if
my suggestions can be of any help.

Sincerely, Brent Gevers
Alan Browne wrote:

First I'd like to revisit my original post (and then comment on Helix's
response, thanks to Alan Browne for
conveying it):

Helix is a big name old camera store in Chicago...Yesterday I went to
the flagship store with the intention of looking at Pentax ist and other
small slr's after the discussion here.

As you enter the store, there is the fil developing section. Two or
three staff almost dozing around and no customers. I asked if I could
drop a film and have them mail the prints. One disinterested guy said
the mailing charge would be $7. I said no thanks and moved on to the
main show room.

It is a huge room with very few cameras. There was a receptionist/
security sort of person as you enter, six or seven staff milling around
inside, and no customers.

Still how I remember it...

The first person I asked about SLR's said why do you want film
anyway and put a digital ps in my hand!

I have the morning-after feeling and regret writing this. When I asked
about film slr's and the salesperson suggested digitals instead, I
could have said no. I willingly went along with the offer to look at
them. While I remain unconverted, it was a legitimate act of
salesmanship to point out alternatives within my budget.

Then he had to go inside to fetch his eyeglasses, so he took back the
camera from my hand although there were many staff around, a person
at the door, and I was the only customer.

I thought this was crude, unworthy of a high end store. By contrast, at
Central Camera (see later), the salesman, when he saw me absorbed with
the three cameras he had given me (Pentax ist, Contax T3, Olympus
IS-50). left me alone to handle them for several minutes and then came
back to ask if I had any questions.

I saw a Contax T3 and asked how in his opinion it compares with Ricoh
GR1. He said Ricoh only makes toasters. Anyway, to the SLR issue. He
called in another person who was supposed be know SLR's. I asked about
Pentax ist; the new expert guy said they don't have it and it was
digital only anyway. When I insisted that it comes in a film version,
he said mabe in Asia but not here.

Everything about Helix seemed old, outdated, and out of touch on that
day---for example, the salesman thought Contax T3 wouldn't let you set
the aperture and changed his opinion only after I insisted he look at
the camera which was sitting on the shelf behind him---but this was
another exchange that put them in poor light.

Professionals should know what is happening in their field and know
competing products even if they don't sell them. That applies to every
salesman but certainly to the resident SLR expert called in for such
queries. HOWEVER, even if he didn't, if he feels like bothering, it
takes five minutes to find out; if he didn't, all of one second to
admit so. Instead, I encountered a classic case of arrogance: They, who
didn't know, had to be right. I, who had travelled many miles to look
at a specific product, had to be wrong about its existence.

By now I had wasted about 30 minutes, so I left.

OK, it was also 3:58 PM and my parking was about to become illegal at
4:00 PM. "Wasted" is the wrong word. The conversation about
digitals, which I willingly accepted, was educating. Of course they
didn't have any of the small film slr's I wanted to look at (Pentax
*ist and Minolta Maxxum) but I should have called and checked first; I
had assumed a big store must stock such major brands, a lesson for the
future.

(On the way home I stopped at Central Camera. What a difference! They
had lots of cameras and customers. Within a few minutes the sales man
had placed a Pentax ist in my hand. So now I know what it looks and
feels like.)

To be fair, Central Camera is a much smaller space than Helix. Much
less stuff and many fewer people are needed to make it look full. It
also has a better location to attract foot traffic. As for the "dusty"
part another poster noticed, both stores are old and look so. Central
is right under train tracks.


[Communicated by Alan Browne] Helix Camera Sales wrote:
...
I apologize for my part in you bad experience at Helix. I was the
person who gave you the wrong information concerning the film Pentax
ist. This company never brought that camera in, partley due to a
general disinterest in the film version of that camera and a perceived
weaker standing of Pentax Cameras compared to our mainstays of Canon and
Nikon. Decisions were made not to stock that camera for we cannot
stock every camera. I do apologize for my lack of knowledge .

As far as the coments on the GR1, It was a very good camera.
Unfortunatly Ricoh ceased importing cameras into the US, You may still
be able to get the camera out of Japan or find one used or directly
imported into the US (Grey Market).

They are no longer made and are only available used. I knew that going
in. I hadn't asked you to produce a new GR1. I asked you (or other
staff) how Contax T3 which you do stock compares with Ricoh GR1. To
which someone replied that Ricoh only makes toasters and coffee makers.

As for your other concerns, I have forwarded your feedback to managment
and I greatly appreciate you taking the time to inform us. Of course we
want customer's experiences at Helix to be pleasent. Your situation
greatly disturbs me.

Thank you for your kind words and good intentions. I would be happy if
my suggestions can be of any help.

Sincerely, Brent Gevers
Alan Browne wrote:

Mycroft wrote:
I then called (They have a checkout on
their website, but I refuse to use ANY checkout where I have to enter
my charge card online - there is no such thing as a secure website).

Off topic, but IMHO this fear is unfounded.

You are right; there is no such thing as a secure website. But keep in
mind a few other factors as well:

1. The additional risk of compromising your CC number online is quite
low; you are, most likely, placing your credit card number in (possible)
jeopardy a few times each day. There's nothing stopping the waiter in a
restaurant (who takes your card and comes back with it 5 minutes later)
from copying down the number and expiration date, and then using it
later online, for example. (and the financial incentive is high- a lot
of waiters are paid minimum wage + tips)

2. Most banks today have very strong protection against online fraud.
You never have to pay an unauthorized transaction; I think the law only
makes you liable for the first $50, and most banks actually take that
down to 0.

I'm speaking from experience; my credit card number was compromised
three times- twice online, and once on a credit card which I had never
used online. All three times, there was no hassle at all; I called the
bank, told them that my card was used for unauthorized transactions, and
they immediately placed the amount in question "on hold" (i.e. I
didn't have to pay it.) A week or so later, I received a letter in the
mail absolving me of any responsibility regarding that transaction.

3. In fraud disputes, the bank usually sides with the customer, not with
the merchant. (Use a credit card, not a debit card- the bank will be
much more forthcoming if it hasn't taken your money from your account
yet.) They want to keep your business, and don't really care if a
merchant somewhere gets screwed. (A merchant can't stop accepting
BankOne cards, for example, as long as they still carry the VISA or
Mastercard brand)

-Tudor.

--
To reply by email, remove two L's from "freLLlling"

Mycroft wrote:
I then called (They have a checkout on
their website, but I refuse to use ANY checkout where I have to enter
my charge card online - there is no such thing as a secure website).

Off topic, but IMHO this fear is unfounded.

You are right; there is no such thing as a secure website. But keep in
mind a few other factors as well:

1. The additional risk of compromising your CC number online is quite
low; you are, most likely, placing your credit card number in (possible)
jeopardy a few times each day. There's nothing stopping the waiter in a
restaurant (who takes your card and comes back with it 5 minutes later)
from copying down the number and expiration date, and then using it
later online, for example. (and the financial incentive is high- a lot
of waiters are paid minimum wage + tips)

2. Most banks today have very strong protection against online fraud.
You never have to pay an unauthorized transaction; I think the law only
makes you liable for the first $50, and most banks actually take that
down to 0.

I'm speaking from experience; my credit card number was compromised
three times- twice online, and once on a credit card which I had never
used online. All three times, there was no hassle at all; I called the
bank, told them that my card was used for unauthorized transactions, and
they immediately placed the amount in question "on hold" (i.e. I
didn't have to pay it.) A week or so later, I received a letter in the
mail absolving me of any responsibility regarding that transaction.

3. In fraud disputes, the bank usually sides with the customer, not with
the merchant. (Use a credit card, not a debit card- the bank will be
much more forthcoming if it hasn't taken your money from your account
yet.) They want to keep your business, and don't really care if a
merchant somewhere gets screwed. (A merchant can't stop accepting
BankOne cards, for example, as long as they still carry the VISA or
Mastercard brand)

-Tudor.

--
To reply by email, remove two L's from "freLLlling"

Mycroft wrote:


This story on the net is so at odds with my experience that I find it
hard to believe.

Yet the reply from Helix both admitted the problem and apologized
for it...


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