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[SI] Shootin suggestion



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 08, 04:04 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Alienjones[_3_]
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Posts: 255
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

I guess everyone has noticed the slow death of shootin. Oddly coinciding
with the increased theft of images and deliberate attacks on some.

I think shootin is a part of the fabric of this group ... At least
before it was damaged by those who can't accept that it's OK to disagree
with someone, just don't try to humiliate them because you do.

I have the feeling the group has a chance now of going into revival
mode. Certainly it's changing for the better and hopefully in the
process, there will be a place for shootin. Maybe not in it's original form.

I know the mere suggestion someone might gain financially from anything
to do with photography is a sickening thought to some. I also know there
are a few who would cross post to other groups rather than contain their
ranting to just one. (people invariably read them all so the exercise is
flawed anyway).

Having said all this... Is there any support here for the though that
obtaining a sponsor and setting up a community web site so those of us
left can host our happy snaps in a one central location and provide
shootin with it's own home?

Sort of make rec.photo.equipment.35mm *THE* group for dedicated
photographers who could join shootin without fear of harassment or
denigration.

I have in mind a few (as in 2 or 3) advertisers or industry sponsors and
maybe a token annual payment ($5 or $10) for a hosting account where
your photos could be selected for printing by anyone interested and you
get the royalty or not at your own option.

I don't mind donating initial funding and the software to get it started
and enable individuals to manage their own albums. Maybe a include a
"shootin" mail account too. I have a healthy co-located server in the US
on a very fast backbone. One more site is not going to bother it much.

This deal needs a couple of people to manage, organize it and make sure
it doesn't get turned into a porn site as well as handle any issues of
plagiarism ( www.plagiarism.org ) and copyright misuse.

Probably a loose sort of committee to from time to time make decisions
(is that possible?) and maybe do a bit of in-country liaison with
sponsors or printers.

Surely if everyone has a common interest, something like this can be
made to work? I've seen a lot of photos posted by subscribers to this
group that in their own right are salable. Certainly the owners may not
need the money but the thought of knowing someone has thought enough of
your picture to buy a print would be a boost to your hobby.

Am I asking too much? Expecting too much? Comments should not be cross
posted to the universe but if you really must... You'll do it anyway!

Douglas




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  #2  
Old March 30th 08, 05:56 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Doug Jewell[_3_]
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Posts: 426
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

That Rich wrote:
On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:04:26 +1000, Alienjones
wrote:

Am I asking too much? Expecting too much?


Not at all.
An open dialogue is good..

Personally, the shoot-in *was* a great asset to help me learn to be a
better photographer and indeed it has improved my ability to meet a
deadline (I still shoot film so it is a bit more of a challenge).
Another opportunity to play photographer is welcomed )
The shoot-in has my vote provided everybody sticks to the mandate and
doesn't submit archived photographs. After all, shoot-in was
originally all about being creative.

Hear Hear!!
I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more
into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels"
equipment bashing, rather than photography. The wars that
alienjones(d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but
d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in
that war as everyone else. I am keen to contribute to SI,
although the real-world frequently gets in the way. I
managed to contribute just as it died.

I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting /
sponsorship etc. There is nothing wrong with the existing
PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of
the other free hosting sites. Actually, flickr might be a
good place to host - we could create an SI group, then
people could submit their own photos to the group without
having to require as much effort on the part of an
administrator. It would require contributors to join flickr,
but that is quite painless, and with 100MB/mth free, no-one
would be disadvantaged. Users can maintain their own level
of rights then too - if you want to let people download a
hi-res version of your image and have open slather with
image theft you can. If like most people you only want to
let them have access to a relatively low resolution version,
to which you retain copyright, you can do that too.

The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk
of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35.
Potentially it could reduce the signal in this group and let
the noise take over.

Any other suggestions?

RP©
-
'Some cause happiness wherever they go; others,whenever they go.'

- Oscar Wilde -

  #3  
Old March 30th 08, 12:22 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Tony Polson[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

Alienjones wrote:

I have the feeling the group has a chance now of going into revival
mode. Certainly it's changing for the better and hopefully in the
process, there will be a place for shootin. Maybe not in it's original form.




Why not have monthly submissions without a "mandate".

The mandates were laughable - they were supposed to represent a brief
but, being composed by people who had probably never seen a real world
brief, let alone worked to one, they were worse than useless. So let
people submit images of all kinds of subjects, one per person per
month.

And why not have a competition where people can vote for their
favourite shot? Keep the voting anonymous. Discourage people
commenting on the newsgroup on other people's shots, because as in a
camera club, that is a guaranteed route to mediocrity.

Only those who contribute can vote. Have all the usual SI safeguards
so only people who follow the rules can submit, and vote. Votes would
accumulate throughout the month thus encouraging early submissions
hoping to garner the most votes.

If the system works, themed competitions could be added.

This would not only refresh the SI, but more important, keep it fresh.
  #4  
Old March 30th 08, 01:10 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,311
Default Shootin suggestion

On Mar 30, 2:56 pm, Doug Jewell wrote:
I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more
into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels"
equipment bashing, rather than photography.

I'm not sure I entirely agree - I think many groups go through these
phases, and there are a number of other reasons:
- all (ok, most) of the important questions/topics have been dealt
with. This may sound trite, but think back to when you first got
involved here - how many questions did you have? How many *now*? How
hard is it quickly search on any topic of interest and find the
answers? How many resources are now easily available, that weren't
there five years ago?
- technology has 'settled'. When digital first raised its (initially
ugly) head, there was a plethora of issues and problems to be dealt
with, and a lot of poor cameras/technology was born, compatibility
issues, etc. But now, it seems to me that the 'new age' has pretty
much sorted itself out, and the technology is 'there'. Wherever that
is.
- we've had a *lot* of trolls (eg the p&s idiot, Rita..)
- we've had a *lot* of spam recently...

The wars that alienjones (d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but
d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in that war as
everyone else.

Exactly. Despite D-Mac's ironic authorship of this, I'll contribute
without further comment on that aspect.

I am keen to contribute to SI,
although the real-world frequently gets in the way.


Same.
I agree with Tony's suggestion. No mandate. Just a challenge - make
your image in some way *educational*, so that you can elaborate on
what/how/why you did it, and therefore offer enlightenment. Be it
black and white filters, novel photoshopping, high/low key, artistic
choice, film/dev choice (yes, some of us still do!), or just plain old
exposure settings/compensation choices...

Another alternative - recycling! I often browse back through the SIs,
and gain inspiration by seeing what others have done and think of ways
I could contribute.. but it's too late.

I frequently find the single word mandates uninspiring, or just boring
topics. That's my problem, I know, but I do think seeing a few sample
images would be more inspiring, if there must be a topic. Maybe the
mandater could go and find 2-3 demonstration images (not necessarily
his/hers) and provide links.

Or maybe the mandate should be more oriented towards technique, and
should involve discussion *beforehand* to pique our interest...(this
one is my favorite..)

I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting /
sponsorship etc.

I agree. That is just anathema to the concept of usenet, and I would
have no part in it.

There is nothing wrong with the existing
PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of
the other free hosting sites.


The Flickr suggestion is interesting, but I don't know enough about it
to meaningfully add...

One last comment... I think it is notable that there are obviously
numerous lurkers out there lamenting the demise of the group, and the
lack of interesting postings. Well... if you aren't part of the
solution... Why not contribute some topics, folks? If you sit there
whining about how bad things are, do you think you are helping?

  #5  
Old March 30th 08, 02:12 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm,alt.photography,aus.photo
Gordon Lightfoot III
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Shootin suggestion

On Mar 30, 2:04*pm, Alienjones wrote:
I guess everyone has noticed the slow death of shootin. Oddly coinciding
with the increased theft of images and deliberate attacks on some.


Typical bull**** from a queer ****. No one took your images you dumb
****, you have mental issues. GET SOME HELP before I have to pop
around and kick the **** out of you. Let Marg take photos of that and
post them.


I know the mere suggestion someone might gain financially from anything
to do with photography is a sickening thought to some.


Something you have never done you deluded ****er.

Why do you change you name every week? If you were so professional you
would stick to the one name.
I have tried looking you up in the yellow pages so I can pay you a
visit. I want to visit you. I want to kick the **** out of you.
I want to stand on your throat as you beg for life. As you take your
last breath Marg will be sucking the last drop of cum out of my huge
penis.

--
www.DeathtoDouggie.com

Shane White-Springthorpe
  #6  
Old March 30th 08, 03:44 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Annika1980
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,898
Default Shootin suggestion

Leave it to D-Mac to try to figure out a way to make a buck off of
someone else's work. If you want to contribute so badly why not send
Jim Kramer the $23 for the annual pbase dues?

The Shootin was fine while it lasted, but it has clearly run its
course.
The reasons for its demise are simple .... less people posting to the
newsgroups, mandates that are too strict, but mainly a lack of
interest.

There are many other better places on the net now where you can share
your photos or compete in photo challenges.
One of the best is http://www.dpchallenge.com/
There is always some great stuff on that site.







  #7  
Old March 30th 08, 04:30 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Peter Chant[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 203
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

Doug Jewell wrote:


I think the death of SI came about as the group turned more
into "Brand X pixels are better than brand y pixels"
equipment bashing, rather than photography. The wars that


Which is silly when there were some good images produced on point and
shoots.


alienjones(d-mac) is referring to haven't helped either, but
d-mac needs to accept he has played just as much a part in
that war as everyone else. I am keen to contribute to SI,
although the real-world frequently gets in the way. I
managed to contribute just as it died.

I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting /
sponsorship etc. There is nothing wrong with the existing
PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of
the other free hosting sites. Actually, flickr might be a
good place to host - we could create an SI group, then


What advantage does that offer over pbase?


The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk
of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35.
Potentially it could reduce the signal in this group and let
the noise take over.


I have made my killfile much more restrictive. I know there are some good
posts lost but overall it has made a huge difference - a lot more signal
than noise.

Pete
--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk
  #8  
Old March 30th 08, 04:34 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Peter Chant[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 203
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

That Rich wrote:


Personally, the shoot-in *was* a great asset to help me learn to be a
better photographer and indeed it has improved my ability to meet a
deadline (I still shoot film so it is a bit more of a challenge).
Another opportunity to play photographer is welcomed )
The shoot-in has my vote provided everybody sticks to the mandate and
doesn't submit archived photographs. After all, shoot-in was
originally all about being creative.


Unfortunately the amount of shooting I do, combined with being being a film
photographer and not wanting to drive into town during work lunch hour (it
is very hard to do it just in an hour) makes it hard for me to meet the
deadlines. If I shoot a roll right now I probably, if colour, would be
pushing it to get the scans up online by next weekend.

Pete


--
http://www.petezilla.co.uk
  #9  
Old March 30th 08, 09:16 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Doug Jewell[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 426
Default [SI] Shootin suggestion

Peter Chant wrote:

I don't agree with the concept of commercial hosting /
sponsorship etc. There is nothing wrong with the existing
PBASE hosting, or alternatively shifting to Flickr or one of
the other free hosting sites. Actually, flickr might be a
good place to host - we could create an SI group, then


What advantage does that offer over pbase?

There is nothing wrong with PBase, I'm only suggesting
Flickr because it has a slightly different workflow which
could encourage better participation. A group can be
created, then interested people can join that group. The
group has a photo-pool, that members of the group can add to.
With Pbase, contributors have to format their image, then
email it to an administrator (currently Jim) who has to take
the time to upload them etc.
With Flickr, you upload to the site yourself (no special
formatting needed, flickr takes care of reducing it to a
web-only size). Once you have it on your flickr page, you
simply link the photo to the Pool(s) that you want it to
appear on.
An example:
my flickr page is www.flickr.com/photos/gdaj
one of the groups I am a member of is Main Range National
Park. The photo pool for this group is:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/428207@N22/pool/
You will notice that in the group pool there are photos from
myself and quite a few others.
As I said - PBase seems to be working, but I'm just
suggesting an alternative that would reduce the admin-load,
and potentially make it easier to contribute. I know there
are a few contributors who already use flickr. For those
that don't, it is free to upload 100MB/month, and very easy
to use. For anyone who is using an alias and wants to retain
their alias rather than their real name, it is also very
simple to create an additional account for that.


The only drama I can see with using flickr would be the risk
of people using that forum for discussion rather than rpe35.
Potentially it could reduce the signal in this group and let
the noise take over.


I have made my killfile much more restrictive. I know there are some good
posts lost but overall it has made a huge difference - a lot more signal
than noise.

I haven't been able to work out how to use filtering in
thunderbird. seems to come in phases - the S/N of the group
varies from day to day and week to week.

Pete

  #10  
Old March 30th 08, 10:15 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.35mm
Noons[_4_]
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Posts: 37
Default WARNING! THIS WAS POSTED BY CONFESSED PAEDOPHILE BRET DOUGLAS, HIDINGUNDER THE ALIAS OF ANNIKA1980

On Mar 31, 12:44 am, Annika1980 wrote:
Leave it to D-Mac to try to figure out a way to make a buck off of
someone else's work. If you want to contribute so badly why not send
Jim Kramer the $23 for the annual pbase dues?

The Shootin was fine while it lasted, but it has clearly run its
course.
The reasons for its demise are simple .... less people posting to the
newsgroups, mandates that are too strict, but mainly a lack of
interest.

There are many other better places on the net now where you can share
your photos or compete in photo challenges.
One of the best ishttp://www.dpchallenge.com/
There is always some great stuff on that site.


 




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