Chromira - poster size prints

What kinds of process does Ofoto (Kodak) use to print 20x30? dyesub,
injet or chemical?

I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira, which is a lot cheaper
than WestCoastImaging. And they are just an hour from my home.

http://www.connimage.com/

Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?

They accept sRGB but also optional embedded profile. I think using sRGB
defeats the advantage of using Chromira printers. So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?

From: leo

I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira

Good for you. The Chromira is a very good printer.

Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?

Should be better than what you'll get from Ofoto (Kodak). Calypso uses both
the Epson 9600 and a Chromira and if you're a customer you can get free sample
prints of the same image on both printers ... I've done this and in a blind
comparison the Chromira image was *slightly* preferrable to the 9600 one. So
not "much better" but slightly better.

So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?

You should work in an abstract "working space" like AdobeRGB or similar (if
you've started off in sRGB I guess just stay in sRGB, unfortunately) and NOT in
a device specific space like that defined by the Chromira printer/paper ICC
profile. Once you have made the final edits and resized the image then run a
soft proof with the Chromira profile (View Proof Setup Custom) to see how
the final print will (hopefully) look ... this should give you a good idea if
the Chromira profile is good and if your monitor is well calibrated and
profiled.

Once it looks right you want to make a new copy and convert it to the Chromira
profile (Image Mode Convert to Profile) and send that to the printer.

If you work in an abstract space like AdobeRGB you can then target the output
to various devices (ie different printers or the web or CMYK or whatever).
That's why you want to work in a neutral space instead of a device specific
space, unless you are certain you'll only ever output to that one device.

From: leo

I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira

Good for you. The Chromira is a very good printer.

Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?

Should be better than what you'll get from Ofoto (Kodak). Calypso uses both
the Epson 9600 and a Chromira and if you're a customer you can get free sample
prints of the same image on both printers ... I've done this and in a blind
comparison the Chromira image was *slightly* preferrable to the 9600 one. So
not "much better" but slightly better.

So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?

You should work in an abstract "working space" like AdobeRGB or similar (if
you've started off in sRGB I guess just stay in sRGB, unfortunately) and NOT in
a device specific space like that defined by the Chromira printer/paper ICC
profile. Once you have made the final edits and resized the image then run a
soft proof with the Chromira profile (View Proof Setup Custom) to see how
the final print will (hopefully) look ... this should give you a good idea if
the Chromira profile is good and if your monitor is well calibrated and
profiled.

Once it looks right you want to make a new copy and convert it to the Chromira
profile (Image Mode Convert to Profile) and send that to the printer.

If you work in an abstract space like AdobeRGB you can then target the output
to various devices (ie different printers or the web or CMYK or whatever).
That's why you want to work in a neutral space instead of a device specific
space, unless you are certain you'll only ever output to that one device.

From: leo

I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira

Good for you. The Chromira is a very good printer.

Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?

Should be better than what you'll get from Ofoto (Kodak). Calypso uses both
the Epson 9600 and a Chromira and if you're a customer you can get free sample
prints of the same image on both printers ... I've done this and in a blind
comparison the Chromira image was *slightly* preferrable to the 9600 one. So
not "much better" but slightly better.

So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?

You should work in an abstract "working space" like AdobeRGB or similar (if
you've started off in sRGB I guess just stay in sRGB, unfortunately) and NOT in
a device specific space like that defined by the Chromira printer/paper ICC
profile. Once you have made the final edits and resized the image then run a
soft proof with the Chromira profile (View Proof Setup Custom) to see how
the final print will (hopefully) look ... this should give you a good idea if
the Chromira profile is good and if your monitor is well calibrated and
profiled.

Once it looks right you want to make a new copy and convert it to the Chromira
profile (Image Mode Convert to Profile) and send that to the printer.

If you work in an abstract space like AdobeRGB you can then target the output
to various devices (ie different printers or the web or CMYK or whatever).
That's why you want to work in a neutral space instead of a device specific
space, unless you are certain you'll only ever output to that one device.

Bill Hilton wrote:
From: leo


I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira


Good for you. The Chromira is a very good printer.


Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?


Should be better than what you'll get from Ofoto (Kodak). Calypso uses both
the Epson 9600 and a Chromira and if you're a customer you can get free sample
prints of the same image on both printers ... I've done this and in a blind
comparison the Chromira image was *slightly* preferrable to the 9600 one. So
not "much better" but slightly better.


So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?


You should work in an abstract "working space" like AdobeRGB or similar (if
you've started off in sRGB I guess just stay in sRGB, unfortunately) and NOT in
a device specific space like that defined by the Chromira printer/paper ICC
profile. Once you have made the final edits and resized the image then run a
soft proof with the Chromira profile (View Proof Setup Custom) to see how
the final print will (hopefully) look ... this should give you a good idea if
the Chromira profile is good and if your monitor is well calibrated and
profiled.

Once it looks right you want to make a new copy and convert it to the Chromira
profile (Image Mode Convert to Profile) and send that to the printer.

If you work in an abstract space like AdobeRGB you can then target the output
to various devices (ie different printers or the web or CMYK or whatever).
That's why you want to work in a neutral space instead of a device specific
space, unless you are certain you'll only ever output to that one device.


I understand the basic workflow. Once convert the JPEG to the Noritsu
printer profile before printing at Costco (ask for no adjustment), I got
better color than I would simply send the sRGB files out. It's the fall
color so I was very surprised that the color fidelity's quite
acceptable, which is comparable to my Epson R200 print. However, I
didn't look at both prints at the same time, so my judgement might be
off a bit. Nevertheless, by converting to the printer's color space
certainly beats using sRGB alone.

I think I have to ask for the ICC file at the printshop. If they don't
have the ICC files, are there generic profiles that I can use?

Bill Hilton wrote:
From: leo


I have found a cheap place which uses Chromira


Good for you. The Chromira is a very good printer.


Is the Chromira print much better than Kodak's or Epson's?


Should be better than what you'll get from Ofoto (Kodak). Calypso uses both
the Epson 9600 and a Chromira and if you're a customer you can get free sample
prints of the same image on both printers ... I've done this and in a blind
comparison the Chromira image was *slightly* preferrable to the 9600 one. So
not "much better" but slightly better.


So if I embed the
color profile, does it mean I edit on Photoshop using the camera profile
and never convert it to AdobeRGB? Or do I convert to AdobeRGB and embed
AdobeRGB profile to the JPEG?


You should work in an abstract "working space" like AdobeRGB or similar (if
you've started off in sRGB I guess just stay in sRGB, unfortunately) and NOT in
a device specific space like that defined by the Chromira printer/paper ICC
profile. Once you have made the final edits and resized the image then run a
soft proof with the Chromira profile (View Proof Setup Custom) to see how
the final print will (hopefully) look ... this should give you a good idea if
the Chromira profile is good and if your monitor is well calibrated and
profiled.

Once it looks right you want to make a new copy and convert it to the Chromira
profile (Image Mode Convert to Profile) and send that to the printer.

If you work in an abstract space like AdobeRGB you can then target the output
to various devices (ie different printers or the web or CMYK or whatever).
That's why you want to work in a neutral space instead of a device specific
space, unless you are certain you'll only ever output to that one device.


I understand the basic workflow. Once convert the JPEG to the Noritsu
printer profile before printing at Costco (ask for no adjustment), I got
better color than I would simply send the sRGB files out. It's the fall
color so I was very surprised that the color fidelity's quite
acceptable, which is comparable to my Epson R200 print. However, I
didn't look at both prints at the same time, so my judgement might be
off a bit. Nevertheless, by converting to the printer's color space
certainly beats using sRGB alone.

I think I have to ask for the ICC file at the printshop. If they don't
have the ICC files, are there generic profiles that I can use?

From: leo

I think I have to ask for the ICC file at the printshop. If they don't
have the ICC files, are there generic profiles that I can use?

If they don't have them for you to use then they probably are not expecting the
files to come to them converted, so I'd ask them in advance about the format
and any profile conversions.

... are there generic profiles that I can use?

You can download the West Coast Imaging Chromira profiles here near the bottom
of the page, but I'd mainly use them for soft-proofing since the cheapo place
you're using may not use the same paper or may not be expecting to receive a
converted file ...
http://www.westcoastimaging.com/wci/.../chromira/chro
miraspecs.htm ...

Hmm, just reading over the link they (WCI) say do NOT convert to these profiles
since it's done automatically by the Chromira ... they recommend just using
them for soft-proofing.

Bill

From: leo

I think I have to ask for the ICC file at the printshop. If they don't
have the ICC files, are there generic profiles that I can use?

If they don't have them for you to use then they probably are not expecting the
files to come to them converted, so I'd ask them in advance about the format
and any profile conversions.

... are there generic profiles that I can use?

You can download the West Coast Imaging Chromira profiles here near the bottom
of the page, but I'd mainly use them for soft-proofing since the cheapo place
you're using may not use the same paper or may not be expecting to receive a
converted file ...
http://www.westcoastimaging.com/wci/.../chromira/chro
miraspecs.htm ...

Hmm, just reading over the link they (WCI) say do NOT convert to these profiles
since it's done automatically by the Chromira ... they recommend just using
them for soft-proofing.

Bill

Bill Hilton wrote:
From: leo


I think I have to ask for the ICC file at the printshop. If they don't
have the ICC files, are there generic profiles that I can use?


If they don't have them for you to use then they probably are not expecting the
files to come to them converted, so I'd ask them in advance about the format
and any profile conversions.


... are there generic profiles that I can use?


You can download the West Coast Imaging Chromira profiles here near the bottom
of the page, but I'd mainly use them for soft-proofing since the cheapo place
you're using may not use the same paper or may not be expecting to receive a
converted file ...
http://www.westcoastimaging.com/wci/.../chromira/chro
miraspecs.htm ...

Hmm, just reading over the link they (WCI) say do NOT convert to these profiles
since it's done automatically by the Chromira ... they recommend just using
them for soft-proofing.

Bill


Would you send the files off using the editing color space, i.e.
AdobeRGB? Or do I have to convert it to sRGB? You just reminded me that
I read the FAQ of another shop that chose Chromira, over Lightjet is
there's no need to convert the files to the printer color space. The
price of the print at the cheapo shop is mere $10 more than Ofoto for
20x30. I'm eager to give it a try. As the photos are not for artshows
etc, I wouldn't want to spend a fortune in other high end printshops and
they charge a setup fee for the first print, clearly not for
individuals. I know you have an 1Ds MK II, but do you like the result of
20D enlarged to that size? Do you do interpolation yourself? If so, how?

"leo" wrote in message
...

Would you send the files off using the editing color space, i.e.
AdobeRGB? Or do I have to convert it to sRGB? You just reminded me that
I read the FAQ of another shop that chose Chromira, over Lightjet is
there's no need to convert the files to the printer color space. The
price of the print at the cheapo shop is mere $10 more than Ofoto for
20x30. I'm eager to give it a try. As the photos are not for artshows
etc, I wouldn't want to spend a fortune in other high end printshops and
they charge a setup fee for the first print, clearly not for
individuals. I know you have an 1Ds MK II, but do you like the result of
20D enlarged to that size? Do you do interpolation yourself? If so, how?

Hi Leo...
I run a Digital Print centre in Australia. Maybe some of your aprehensions
can be easiely overcome. Interpolation software varies in it's cost and
usefulness. "Stair Interpolation" as used via Photoshop is probably the
bottom of the barrel for quality but certainly capable of upsizing a 20D
image to 20"x30" with quite acceptable results. The Chromira printers are
right up there with the best of them. If the lab you are using only takes
your file and sends it to the printer, you might be better off paying more
for a complete service.

If someone doesn't know a lot about the process, I tell them to give me a
small print of what they expect the enlargement to look like and the
original file. I do the enlargement work myself with an expensive,
dedicated, program immediately before I print it. It is bad practice to edit
an interpolated image. Much better to do any editing before you apply any
sharpening or interpolation. If you are going to interpolate, don't sharpen
at all. As for the colour space? Send sRGB unless they ask for different. If
they use Photoshop to drive the printer they will convert the colour space
as the file is opened anyway.

Cheers,
Doug