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#1
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
This is a long problem so I will be as brief as possible. I own a
large format printing company and we decide that we have a good market to make gift cards and smaller prints to a number of our accounts. I started with Phaser 860 to test market, we hand feeding a Wausau Exact Indext 8".50x11" 110lb 200g/m. Then we would take the impression and slit and fold with the Martin Yale 959. We wore out the head after awile. So we thought its time to upgrade printers. We contacted Xerox corporate sales explained exactly what our needs are and the paper that I listed above Wausau 110lb. They checked everything out and we would need to work with the DocuColor 2240 they stated. So then we did extensive test at the Xerox in Bloomington Minnesota. They said the specs of this machine fits our needs! So we did a five year lease and a service contract. About after two months color hold of jobs got really bad. When we ran a stock pile that we ran even a week ago the hues would be so far out we were doing large percents of color correcting like 50% multiple times. What printed befor blue was green and yellow were orange. The service techs came out several times. Never got any better just got worse. Then started fading overal tones light tones completly washed out. I mean quality is very poor. Calibrations did nothing. Service techs worked on this machine on and off for months as I'm loosing accounts. So then Xerox decides that they will swap out for the work centre pro 40 and tells me its print enginge is completely different, but finding out later the same as the 2240. Runs good for three weeks color shifts during during runs of stockpiles in the same run doesn't hold color at all! Tones are all faded hues rocking back and forth a complete mess! Xerox service techs are scratching there heads and work on this machine for about two months! Finaly the main Tech says he finds out that the Cover weight is making a wear impression in the rollers and drum that he says is a dead end! He says he can't do anything else and say he will comment to Xerox that the amount of cover weight is to damaging to the rollors. Then he tells me he has another account that is wearing these rollors out on the machine every 20,000 impressions and that this machines seems to be a dead end!!! I tell my dealer all this and they say I have to take it up with Xerox cause they spec the machine suitable for my specs. So we contact Xerox they have us write a letter on why we would need to do a reverse sale to break the contract. We even have thousands of scraps and documention of machine failure. We print a discriptive letter not like this one as you can see I'm not a good writer. It has contact information the ten yards of all problems. So we fax it. One week goes by and another and another, we call our person that is handling our customer support, leave multiple messages never call back for two months!!!!! And ask us to refax our statement cause no customer number listed on it!!! We fax back right away with the our customer number another and wait another month with messages we left to call, but never returned phone calls! Then they call today saying sales rejects reverse sale. I ask this woman why? She says sales says the work centre pro meets our specs. I ask her did you talk with the service techs out in Minnesota she does'nt know!! I said the machine as been broken for months and can't fix, now what. She does'nt know! I say would'nt it be better to break the contract then replace the machine every two weeks or month and I can't afford the down times? She says she will talk to some people. I would be fine just to break the contract, I have gotten legal advice and was told to tell them if they don't break contract we will sue and that's what I have now said if they don't I will persue losses for accounts and material losses. She said I will let them know. |
#2
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
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#3
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
First......I can't fix your problems! Xerox apologizes for your frustration!
It seems to me that you have the wrong machine for your business. The 2240 and the WCP32/40 have always been targeted at the office environment and not the production environment. Those machines are great for doing office powerpoint presentations and the like but I would never recommend them for your environment. It would seem that three things are a factor here...... price came in to play on this decission......the sales rep has led you down the wrong path.....or you didn't state your intended use of the product. It would be a better fit for a DOC12, DC3535 or DC2045 it sounds too me. Just my opinion tho! 20 Yrs counts for something! "Taylor" wrote in message om... This is a long problem so I will be as brief as possible. I own a large format printing company and we decide that we have a good market to make gift cards and smaller prints to a number of our accounts. I started with Phaser 860 to test market, we hand feeding a Wausau Exact Indext 8".50x11" 110lb 200g/m. Then we would take the impression and slit and fold with the Martin Yale 959. We wore out the head after awile. So we thought its time to upgrade printers. We contacted Xerox corporate sales explained exactly what our needs are and the paper that I listed above Wausau 110lb. They checked everything out and we would need to work with the DocuColor 2240 they stated. So then we did extensive test at the Xerox in Bloomington Minnesota. They said the specs of this machine fits our needs! So we did a five year lease and a service contract. About after two months color hold of jobs got really bad. When we ran a stock pile that we ran even a week ago the hues would be so far out we were doing large percents of color correcting like 50% multiple times. What printed befor blue was green and yellow were orange. The service techs came out several times. Never got any better just got worse. Then started fading overal tones light tones completly washed out. I mean quality is very poor. Calibrations did nothing. Service techs worked on this machine on and off for months as I'm loosing accounts. So then Xerox decides that they will swap out for the work centre pro 40 and tells me its print enginge is completely different, but finding out later the same as the 2240. Runs good for three weeks color shifts during during runs of stockpiles in the same run doesn't hold color at all! Tones are all faded hues rocking back and forth a complete mess! Xerox service techs are scratching there heads and work on this machine for about two months! Finaly the main Tech says he finds out that the Cover weight is making a wear impression in the rollers and drum that he says is a dead end! He says he can't do anything else and say he will comment to Xerox that the amount of cover weight is to damaging to the rollors. Then he tells me he has another account that is wearing these rollors out on the machine every 20,000 impressions and that this machines seems to be a dead end!!! I tell my dealer all this and they say I have to take it up with Xerox cause they spec the machine suitable for my specs. So we contact Xerox they have us write a letter on why we would need to do a reverse sale to break the contract. We even have thousands of scraps and documention of machine failure. We print a discriptive letter not like this one as you can see I'm not a good writer. It has contact information the ten yards of all problems. So we fax it. One week goes by and another and another, we call our person that is handling our customer support, leave multiple messages never call back for two months!!!!! And ask us to refax our statement cause no customer number listed on it!!! We fax back right away with the our customer number another and wait another month with messages we left to call, but never returned phone calls! Then they call today saying sales rejects reverse sale. I ask this woman why? She says sales says the work centre pro meets our specs. I ask her did you talk with the service techs out in Minnesota she does'nt know!! I said the machine as been broken for months and can't fix, now what. She does'nt know! I say would'nt it be better to break the contract then replace the machine every two weeks or month and I can't afford the down times? She says she will talk to some people. I would be fine just to break the contract, I have gotten legal advice and was told to tell them if they don't break contract we will sue and that's what I have now said if they don't I will persue losses for accounts and material losses. She said I will let them know. |
#4
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
You have the wrong equipment to do the tasks that you want to. This is what
happens when you skimp. Dont blame it on the sales force. You., and you alone make the decision to purchase the product. No one held a gun to your head. Man, you have to research these things. Stop trying to blame others "Taylor" wrote in message om... This is a long problem so I will be as brief as possible. I own a large format printing company and we decide that we have a good market to make gift cards and smaller prints to a number of our accounts. I started with Phaser 860 to test market, we hand feeding a Wausau Exact Indext 8".50x11" 110lb 200g/m. Then we would take the impression and slit and fold with the Martin Yale 959. We wore out the head after awile. So we thought its time to upgrade printers. We contacted Xerox corporate sales explained exactly what our needs are and the paper that I listed above Wausau 110lb. They checked everything out and we would need to work with the DocuColor 2240 they stated. So then we did extensive test at the Xerox in Bloomington Minnesota. They said the specs of this machine fits our needs! So we did a five year lease and a service contract. About after two months color hold of jobs got really bad. When we ran a stock pile that we ran even a week ago the hues would be so far out we were doing large percents of color correcting like 50% multiple times. What printed befor blue was green and yellow were orange. The service techs came out several times. Never got any better just got worse. Then started fading overal tones light tones completly washed out. I mean quality is very poor. Calibrations did nothing. Service techs worked on this machine on and off for months as I'm loosing accounts. So then Xerox decides that they will swap out for the work centre pro 40 and tells me its print enginge is completely different, but finding out later the same as the 2240. Runs good for three weeks color shifts during during runs of stockpiles in the same run doesn't hold color at all! Tones are all faded hues rocking back and forth a complete mess! Xerox service techs are scratching there heads and work on this machine for about two months! Finaly the main Tech says he finds out that the Cover weight is making a wear impression in the rollers and drum that he says is a dead end! He says he can't do anything else and say he will comment to Xerox that the amount of cover weight is to damaging to the rollors. Then he tells me he has another account that is wearing these rollors out on the machine every 20,000 impressions and that this machines seems to be a dead end!!! I tell my dealer all this and they say I have to take it up with Xerox cause they spec the machine suitable for my specs. So we contact Xerox they have us write a letter on why we would need to do a reverse sale to break the contract. We even have thousands of scraps and documention of machine failure. We print a discriptive letter not like this one as you can see I'm not a good writer. It has contact information the ten yards of all problems. So we fax it. One week goes by and another and another, we call our person that is handling our customer support, leave multiple messages never call back for two months!!!!! And ask us to refax our statement cause no customer number listed on it!!! We fax back right away with the our customer number another and wait another month with messages we left to call, but never returned phone calls! Then they call today saying sales rejects reverse sale. I ask this woman why? She says sales says the work centre pro meets our specs. I ask her did you talk with the service techs out in Minnesota she does'nt know!! I said the machine as been broken for months and can't fix, now what. She does'nt know! I say would'nt it be better to break the contract then replace the machine every two weeks or month and I can't afford the down times? She says she will talk to some people. I would be fine just to break the contract, I have gotten legal advice and was told to tell them if they don't break contract we will sue and that's what I have now said if they don't I will persue losses for accounts and material losses. She said I will let them know. |
#5
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
Steve the Printer wrote:
You have the wrong equipment to do the tasks that you want to. This is what happens when you skimp. Dont blame it on the sales force. You., and you alone make the decision to purchase the product. No one held a gun to your head. Man, you have to research these things. Stop trying to blame others Bull malarkey. The man says he went to Xerox and showed them what he was going to do and they blessed it. End of issue. |
#6
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
Yea I'm sure it happened that way.
I say he didnt tell Xerox what the capacity he needed and now hes up the creek. No one to blame but himself.. Can't he read specs? The specs are SPECIFICATIONS Cut corners, this is what happens PERIOD "Lee Blevins" wrote in message news:1gb9rmo.1qb0dqq1y3o3lcN%leeb@digitalgraphics. net... Steve the Printer wrote: You have the wrong equipment to do the tasks that you want to. This is what happens when you skimp. Dont blame it on the sales force. You., and you alone make the decision to purchase the product. No one held a gun to your head. Man, you have to research these things. Stop trying to blame others Bull malarkey. The man says he went to Xerox and showed them what he was going to do and they blessed it. End of issue. |
#7
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
In article ,
"Steve the Printer" wrote: Yea I'm sure it happened that way. I say he didnt tell Xerox what the capacity he needed and now hes up the creek. No one to blame but himself.. Can't he read specs? The specs are SPECIFICATIONS Cut corners, this is what happens PERIOD The mistake he made was not making a performance parameter that he knew in advance a written condition of the sales agreement. It is not uncommon for performance near the specs to be exaggerated by sales staff. - Allen |
#8
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
Allen Wessels wrote:
The mistake he made was not making a performance parameter that he knew in advance a written condition of the sales agreement. It is not uncommon for performance near the specs to be exaggerated by sales staff. Oh, the old caveat emptor? Or is it a case of misrepresentation? Having dealt with Xerox I'm leaning heavily in the direction of misrepresentation. It's going to be hard for Xerox to claim they had no idea of the intended use of the product. They had salesmen visit the customer AND the customer is claiming they informed Xerox of the intended use. Is their defense going to be "we have published specs and we never go beyond that in asking what they intend to do with the product." The specs would have to be pretty clear that the machine WOULD NOT print on that paper in that run length. Show me the specs on this machine where it says that clearly. I mean CLEARLY. At any rate, the consumer almost always wins these cases because of the old saying of "how do you know when a salesmen is lying?" "When he's moving his lips." This is not a consumer product sold off the shelf at Walmart. It involves a sales cycle and a rep because it's a more complex transaction than buying a bottle of hot sauce. I'd certainly like to hear how it comes out. |
#9
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support from Xerox!!!!!
"I'd certainly like to hear how it comes out."
Well, none of us would, so please communicate privately. |
#10
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Xerox mechanical failure due to cover weight, No support fromXerox!!!!!
On 3/27/2004 3:40 AM Lee Blevins spake thus:
Allen Wessels wrote: The mistake he made was not making a performance parameter that he knew in advance a written condition of the sales agreement. It is not uncommon for performance near the specs to be exaggerated by sales staff. Oh, the old caveat emptor? Or is it a case of misrepresentation? Having dealt with Xerox I'm leaning heavily in the direction of misrepresentation. [blah blah blah snipped] Hey, you: this *definitely* doesn't belong in rec.photo.equipment.large-format. Therefore, I'm redirecting this straight to Hell. -- .... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered to make his own case on his own show. - Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show on CNBC (3/17/04) |
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