Batteries

Paul J Gans wrote:

a big feature.

Third, I think that the projected price of the Volt will kill
it.

These are not good times for automobile sales.

By the way, if you think that gas will stay at its present low
price... But that's another argument.


What one must remember is two things:

1) at its price high, the country in the world with the largest
supply of gasoline-making fossil fuel is ... ta da ... the United States
of America, and by a rather large margin.

2) if the global warming scare people get their way, none of that
will ever be used .... cars for ordinary people in the USA and Europe
will be banned long before it is used. That's their main fear ...
a plentiful supply of fossil fuel in the USA. This will allow their
main goal ... destruction of the US economy and a global
takeover by China, India, etc., where there will be no reduction
in development by the global warming scare. Look at the way the
scare mongers are talking. Do you really believe that they plan
to make large use, in the US and especially worldwide, of the
only possible replacement for fossil fuels ... nuclear fission ...
in the near future? Of course not!


Doug McDonald

Paul J Gans wrote:
[]
How does one do a reconditioning? I've got the standard Canon
chargers which are plug and go.

The symptoms are somewhat strange. I recharge one and it lasts
for four or five shots. Then the low battery warning comes up.
So I recharge and I get perhaps 150 shots out of them. On the
next recharge it is just luck if I get the short charge or the
full one.

The batteries in my 450 SD are NB-4L's, those in my 300D are the
standard for that camera (I don't have it with me at the moment).
The battery symptoms are similar for both.

Paul,

Reconditioning depends on the charger having the ability to drain the
batteries before recharging them. Either your charger has it or not. I'm
referring to NiMH cells (AA etc.), and I don't know whether Li-ion
batteries would benefit from reconditioning.

Li-ion batteries such as the ones you mentioned do have a limited life,
whether they are used or not. Did you say the batteries were a few years
old - if so, likely that's the problem. Buy fresh. I've had good
experience of 3rd-party batteries at around $10-$15, bought from a
reputable supplier.

Cheers,
David

How does one do a reconditioning? I've got the standard Canon
chargers which are plug and go.

On some chargers, there is a "refresh" feature. However, on the proprietary
sized batteries, it may take a special spendy one.

Steve

Alan Browne wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote:

Of course they should have had a decent hybrid out in 2005,
but who is counting?

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/priustoric----g.html

No, the link above is a sorry story. But it rings true.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
Read that sorry story...

This one I remember quite well. It was the usual stuff. Nobody
was willing to stay with a concept to see if it would pan out
in a couple of years.

When the 35mm (film) camera first appeared, folks looked at
it and laughed. When the first digital cameras came out
(remember the Sony?) folks laughed.

In both cases it took a couple of years to catch on.


But GM must still have the plans for the EV1 and they could
probably could have been quickly adopted to current production.
Instead they took four years (or more) to design a totally
new car that won't make it to the streets until 2010 or later.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

David J Taylor wrote:
Paul J Gans wrote:
[]
How does one do a reconditioning? I've got the standard Canon
chargers which are plug and go.

The symptoms are somewhat strange. I recharge one and it lasts
for four or five shots. Then the low battery warning comes up.
So I recharge and I get perhaps 150 shots out of them. On the
next recharge it is just luck if I get the short charge or the
full one.

The batteries in my 450 SD are NB-4L's, those in my 300D are the
standard for that camera (I don't have it with me at the moment).
The battery symptoms are similar for both.

Paul,

Reconditioning depends on the charger having the ability to drain the
batteries before recharging them. Either your charger has it or not. I'm
referring to NiMH cells (AA etc.), and I don't know whether Li-ion
batteries would benefit from reconditioning.

Li-ion batteries such as the ones you mentioned do have a limited life,
whether they are used or not. Did you say the batteries were a few years
old - if so, likely that's the problem. Buy fresh. I've had good
experience of 3rd-party batteries at around $10-$15, bought from a
reputable supplier.

Thanks. That's what I thought. I'm lucky enough to be
in New York City, so it is a trip to B&H for me. It is
a ZOO this time of year, even when they first open in
the morning.

But off I go or I shall be in trouble during holiday season.

--
--- Paul J. Gans

SteveB toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
How does one do a reconditioning? I've got the standard Canon
chargers which are plug and go.

On some chargers, there is a "refresh" feature. However, on the proprietary
sized batteries, it may take a special spendy one.

Thanks. The proprietary charges that I have don't sport
such a feature.


--
--- Paul J. Gans

David J Taylor added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

HEMI-Powered wrote:
[]
I can't really speak to your particular battery issue but I
suppose I'd at least try an old-fashioned Ni-Cad deep
discharge-recharge thing to try to un-memory the thing, IF
the cost of the new battery (s) are at all prohibitive.

Good luck on this!

It wasn't my issue, Jerry, I was just making a suggestion.
Let's see how the OP gets on.

Sorry if I poked a sharp stick in your eye, David. I though you'd
said that you were trying to fix one of your own partially dead
batteries. Sometimes it is hard to follow who is reply to who in
these long-lived threads.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to President
Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President

Paul J Gans added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

According to a conversation I had recently with a GM
engineer, what they are doing is aiming at where their
technology forecasts project batteries to be at the time
of the Volt's (scheduled) release -- i.e., a two-year
out time frame. I would _expect_ current testing to be
at least in part a measure of how well that projection
is in fact working in the intermediate scale (according to
my friend, they all know that their future depends on it
being somewhat close.)

Well, we'll see.

Of course they should have had a decent hybrid out in 2005,
but who is counting?

First, who is "they" and second, why? Until last year, gas was
very cheap. It is now cheap again. It was only for a very short
period that gas prices spiked. And, it wasn't so much the amount
prices went up that alarmed people but how quickly it happened.

If you're unaware, car companies in ALL countries spend BILLIONS
of dollars on developing a new vehicle. They attempt to amortize
that cost of design, development, testing, and tooling across as
many model years and sales numbers as possible so as to generate
a reasonable profit. Lacking profit, there will be NO new
vehicles, no matter how hard any government pushes.

Take a Toyota Prius, for example. I've already done the
calculations, but if you are interested, give it a whirl
yourself. Compare the price of a Prius vs any similar gas-only
car, then factor in the price of replacing batteries after the
first round which is covered by warranty. Now, consider the REAL
mileage difference between a hybrid like the Prius and it's gas-
only competitors, no matter the make. You will find that the
break-even point at current gas prices is WELL into several
hundred thousand miles, if it ever occurs.

It is nice to be green if one has the green.

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to
President Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President

Alan Browne added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

Paul J Gans wrote:

Of course they should have had a decent hybrid out in 2005,
but who is counting?

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/09/priustoric----g.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1
Read that sorry story...

The part of the EV1 that is conveniently forgotten is that GM
designed and developed it specifically for the California zero-
emissions law of a prior time. When the law was
repealed/modified, there was no longer an economic incentive to
complete the development of the EV1 and studies by both GM and
CARB showed there to be only a very small market at the target
price. So, GM wisely stopped. Now, since the vehicle had been
heavily subsidized by government funding, there was a quid pro
quo attached - either build the car or destroy all of them. If GM
had neither sold the cars, which they didn't, but also hadn't
destroyed them except for a few in museums, they would have had
to pay a hefty penalty to the IRS on top of the Department of
Energy incentives which would have had to be paid back.

Here's the thing: everybody would like to be responsible wrt
reducing foreign oil consumption and saving the planet, if the
latter even is possible given the hype and hysteria involved.
But, first, foremost, and last, people WILL go with the low price
solution and NOT necessarily the green solution every time.

It always both amuses and saddans me how so many people who know
nothing at all about the automobile industry and also nothing at
all about safety and emissions laws or even the environment
suddenly think they are experts at telling the world's car makers
how and when to do things.

Look, it isn't just Ford, GM, and Chrysler who are in trouble
right now, presumably because they stupidly missed the change
from big vehicles to small. It is also the Japanese Three -
Honda, Toyota, and Nissan - who are in trouble as is Hyundai/Kia,
BMW, Volvo, Saab, Mercedes-Benz, dozens more. For example, in
November when GM was down 41%, Ford down in the mid-30% range and
Chrysler down 47%, Honda was down 41% also, Toyota was down 30% I
think or a little more, and Nissan was down around 37%. Did all
of these people get stupid all of a sudden?

And, consider this: the ONLY reason the Japs didn't initially
build large trucks and SUVs is that nobody wanted them. Now, they
do, and the above quoted steep declines reflect that. Also,
consider that Toytota spent TWICE the investment cost to develop
the full-size Tundra pickup truck as it did the Prius hybrid. So,
are they stupid or smart for doing these things?

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to
President Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President

Paul J Gans added these comments in the current discussion du
jour ...

But GM must still have the plans for the EV1 and they could
probably could have been quickly adopted to current
production. Instead they took four years (or more) to design a
totally new car that won't make it to the streets until 2010
or later.

GM has NO plans to revive the EV1. It is a vehicle from a bygone
age of electric cars. The Chevy Volt bears absolutely NO
resemblence at all when it comes to dealers in early 2011. If the
armchair generals decrying the auto industry knew anything about
the business at all, they would know that developing an all-new
concept for vehicle motive power is neither a trivial task nor is
it quick and cheap.

You won't see any of this in Wikipedia, though, as it is always
behind the curve by definition - GM isn't about to post articles to
it on it's new vehicle programs, now are they?

--
HP, aka Jerry

"How do you have patience for people who claim they love America,
but clearly can't stand Americans? – Sydney Ellen Wade to President
Andrew Shepherd in the movie "The American President