summary of Kodak downfall

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 00:20:45 -0500, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article , says...

On 02/12/2014 12:07 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , says...

On 02/12/2014 11:33 AM, J. Clarke wrote:


snip

You keep calling it "Advantix". The standard was "APS", not "Advantix",
and Kodak was not the only player. I have in my possession a nearly
complete Minolta Vectis DSLR system. Film was made by Kodak, Fuji, and
Agfa. Cameras were made by Nikon, Canon, and Minolta among others.

APS as a whole was a failure, not just Kodak's product line within the
APS market.



I did not say APS was a failure, I said Advantix was a failure and it was.

So you're saying that APS film was a success? Then do tell me where I
can buy some that is not more than 2 years old?



I am cutting and pasting your EXACT words:



The majority of DSLRs on the market use the APS film format.

Sorry, I did not realize I was dealing with someone who is so literal
minded that he thinks a DSLR uses film.

I've already posted an article, which you have ignored, which gives
the dimensions of the APS formats and asks:

"Which format? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Photo_System

"The film is 24 mm wide, and has three image formats:

* H for "High Definition" (30.2 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 16:9;
4×7" print)
* C for "Classic" (25.1 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 3:2; 4×6" print)
* P for "Panoramic" (30.2 × 9.5 mm; aspect ratio 3:1; 4×11"
print)
The "C" and "P" formats are formed by cropping. "

What is there there that can definitively be shown to be the ancestor
of the format used by DSLRs?"

I can't see any connection between formats used by DSLRs and APS.
There may be one but it is not immediately obvious to me.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 02/12/2014 11:20 PM, J. Clarke wrote:



trolling snipped

Dale wrote:

what if you applied the laws of supply and demand to labor?

the work less people want gets paid more

the work people want more gets paid less

no harm done to meritocracy, more meritocracy since the demand of labor
is satisfied better resulting in a more plausible production model, and
more labor and wages giving demand for products and service

for instance, a coal miner gets paid more than a schmoozer

not applying laws of supply and demand to labor violates capitalism

we do not have capitalism, we have only prestige, its like saying your
title is more important than your pay, its like saying titles are more
important than capitalism

This is off topic.

--
Regards,
Martin Leese
E-mail: LID
Web: http://members.tripod.com/martin_leese/

On 2/12/2014 3:41 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:17:47 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Long after the Mavicas were of little interest to the ordinary
photographer, body shops were buying used ones for this purpose.

mavicas were never of much interest to much of anyone.

Let me guess...you took a flight on which there were people going to
the CAA (California Autobody Association) annual meeting and did a
survey in Coach of whether or not they ever used Mavicas.

Stop picking on nospam. He thrives on it.

--
PeterN

On 2/13/2014 3:51 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 12:27:24 -0500, PeterN
wrote:

On 2/12/2014 3:41 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
On Wed, 12 Feb 2014 14:17:47 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Long after the Mavicas were of little interest to the ordinary
photographer, body shops were buying used ones for this purpose.

mavicas were never of much interest to much of anyone.

Let me guess...you took a flight on which there were people going to
the CAA (California Autobody Association) annual meeting and did a
survey in Coach of whether or not they ever used Mavicas.

Stop picking on nospam. He thrives on it.

If nospam wrote that the Nikon Rebel t3 was a good camera, and it was
pointed out to him that Canon is the maker of the Rebel t3, nospam
would whine about nitpicking and Jonas would bitch about semantic
trolling. Both would wail that we should know what he meant.



And they would be right, since language is not a means of communication.

--
PeterN

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

If nospam wrote that the Nikon Rebel t3 was a good camera, and it was
pointed out to him that Canon is the maker of the Rebel t3, nospam
would whine about nitpicking and Jonas would bitch about semantic
trolling. Both would wail that we should know what he meant.

wrong.

nor would i make such a colossal error anyway.

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

The majority of DSLRs on the market use the APS film format.

Sorry, I did not realize I was dealing with someone who is so literal
minded that he thinks a DSLR uses film.

I've already posted an article, which you have ignored, which gives
the dimensions of the APS formats and asks:

"Which format? See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Photo_System

"The film is 24 mm wide, and has three image formats:

* H for "High Definition" (30.2 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 16:9;
4×7" print)
* C for "Classic" (25.1 × 16.7 mm; aspect ratio 3:2; 4×6" print)
* P for "Panoramic" (30.2 × 9.5 mm; aspect ratio 3:1; 4×11"
print)
The "C" and "P" formats are formed by cropping. "

What is there there that can definitively be shown to be the ancestor
of the format used by DSLRs?"

I can't see any connection between formats used by DSLRs and APS.
There may be one but it is not immediately obvious to me.

there isn't any connection.

the only reason early dslrs had smaller sensors was cost, not because
they wanted to follow in the footsteps of aps, a failed format.

sensors were not particularly cheap back then, so they had to be
smaller for the product to be viable. it turned out that the format was
good enough.

note that there are 1.3x, 1.5x, 1.6x, 1.7x and 2x crop sensor sizes,
with some cameras having a choice of more than just one.

On 2/10/2014 7:17 PM, Dale wrote:
Kodak failed to leverage a giant imaging media market into emerging
hardware and software markets and new media markets

failed to leverage hardware and software into new media
failed to leverage existing media into new hardware and software
failed to develop emerging open systems hardware and software

cheap labor competition cannot be an excuse, they had NAFTA and were
making consumer digital cameras in Mexico, this could have been invested
in more

wasn't a lack of capital, they were Fortune 26 at one time

wasn't a lack of intellectual property, in fact they failed to leverage
the intellectual property they had in time

so why?

Rochester's nickname is "smug town"

we are talking about entertainment technology for the most part, and
entertainment oriented careers, if this was not a market of expendable
income, the downfall would never have happened

for the record I worked in R&D as a systems engineer
the problem was the people

existing connection circles prevailed over performance and even
organizational responsibility

there were all kinds of groups vying too do the new stuff

film had the money, film people got the careers

remember this is entertainment technology careers for the most part and
entertaining work as opposed to necessity work, fun prevailed too

the last job I had was hybrid systems integration on the film side

we couldn't have the word integration in the name of our group, since
there was an equipment group was responsible for integration,, but we
got the budgets and careers, while the equipment people had "jobs" doing
not much

if it weren't an entertainment business that didn't really matter too
much, in much cases, the money and performance would have prevailed

they had NAFTA and a consumer camera plant in Mexico, they were right on
time I tell you, it was not an accounting problem, or a strategic
problem, it was a corporate culture problem

there is your business case study

want some verification?

they tried George Fisher from Motorola as CEO with a BIG pay to shake
things up, he left

they tried Dan Carp from equipment side to shake up film probably, I
don't know where he went

might want to hear what these two have to say about their experience

this was a publicly held company, public means socialism whether you
think so or not, and the public suffered, there needs to be better law
for socialized business

private companies can set pecking orders however you want

socialized companies have a trust, and pecking orders other than by
performance should be called anti-trust, in fact I can't think of any
other anti-trust that is worse

corporate culture in USA has to change because a service industry
economy lasts as long as EXISTING money, to have NEW money you need a
manufacturing economy, you need fair trade and not free trade, just the
right amount of Nationalism, another trust issue for socialized companies

fair trade in USA/UN/WTO has to consider worker's rights and
environmental investments, etc. I am not a CEO but I bet if you had a
circle of accountants instead a circle of cronies things would work,
just a little fascism is all you need

let luxuries to competition, no socialism, and you will eventually have
the demand for production, and eventually the production for a
manufacturing economy, this will be held in place by the invisible hand
of fascism if you legislate fair trade and not free trade

socialize needs of the people and the commodity markets of those needs
will eventually invest in returns, this will be held in place by the
invisible hand of fascism if you legislate free trade here

you don't need to enforce any thing free, in fact people will do
whatever they want unless you give them something better to do, there
should be anarchists rights to break the law with the understanding that
not only do you face possible governmental societal repercussions, you
enter the wild and may have repercussions there that are outside the
realm of government

so how do you enforce fair, one legislation kept in place and evolving
as nations bond

and if the laws are so complex that only the legal system can study
their books of code and case law to use them, then only the legal system
can be held accountable, ignorance is an excuse, if government doesn't
teach law, they enter the wild themselves for people they cross



this thread isn't from me ...

--
Mystery - https://www.dalekelly.org/