Nikon 35mm PC shift lens changes colors

Philip Homburg wrote:

In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
This is only an issue on the earliest versions. Since the OP remarked that his
was a Nippon Kogaku labelled version, that one is too early. He mentioned that
it had been modified, but I don't know what areas need to be changed to allow
mounting safely on newer gear, so that leaves a question on his lens. If the
modifications are more like the later shift lenses, then he should be fine.

Both the 28/4 and the 35/3.5 do not extend beyond the lens mount. After the
modification to fit Ai cameras they should be safe for AF cameras as well.

I have a 35 mm f2.8 Nippon Kogaku shift lens. While the optics do not extend
beyond the mount, that is not the issue of using this on later camera bodies. One
area that is not clearing the AI tab is the lens outer barrel. It would be easy
enough to machine that down. On the FM, FE, F3, F4, and modified F5, there is a
button to move the AI tab out of the way, making that not an issue on those
bodies.

The electronic sensors are inside the mount diameter. It would seem that part of
the bayonet of the lens might make contact inside the mount of the body. That has
nothing to do with the optics. Do you know what exactly is done to modify these
older lenses?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Both the 28/4 and the 35/3.5 do not extend beyond the lens mount. After the
modification to fit Ai cameras they should be safe for AF cameras as well.

I have a 35 mm f2.8 Nippon Kogaku shift lens. While the optics do not extend
beyond the mount, that is not the issue of using this on later camera bodies. One
area that is not clearing the AI tab is the lens outer barrel. It would be easy
enough to machine that down. On the FM, FE, F3, F4, and modified F5, there is a
button to move the AI tab out of the way, making that not an issue on those
bodies.

The electronic sensors are inside the mount diameter. It would seem that part of
the bayonet of the lens might make contact inside the mount of the body. That has
nothing to do with the optics. Do you know what exactly is done to modify these
older lenses?

Well, the first thing to do is indeed to machine down the aperture ring (for
non-Ai lenses with an automatic aperture) or just any part of the lens that
would damage the Ai tab on other lenses.

On the surface of the lens mount is a sensor (for Ais lenses) and the
mechanical AF coupling. Those two are designed to handle old lenses.

Inside the camera may be two sensors for Ais (this applies to the FA and the
F4). If the lens extends far enough into the lens mount that it hits those
two, you may have a problem. (Unless it is an Ais lens of course :-)

Then there are the AF contacts. Some old lenses hit those.

There may be an issue with the mirror. Some old lenses require mirror lock up.
I am not sure if some newer cameras have bigger mirrors which would make it
impossible to use certain lenses.

Anyhow, back to the shift lenses: they do not extend into the lens mount,
so they can't damage any AF or Ais parts.

All that is required is to machine down the part that damages the Ai tab.

(Of course, if you do something Nikon says you shouldn't, it is your own
risk)

I put my 16/3.5 on my F4 before I read in the manual that I should not do
that. As far as I can tell, nothing went wrong.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Both the 28/4 and the 35/3.5 do not extend beyond the lens mount. After the
modification to fit Ai cameras they should be safe for AF cameras as well.

I have a 35 mm f2.8 Nippon Kogaku shift lens. While the optics do not extend
beyond the mount, that is not the issue of using this on later camera bodies. One
area that is not clearing the AI tab is the lens outer barrel. It would be easy
enough to machine that down. On the FM, FE, F3, F4, and modified F5, there is a
button to move the AI tab out of the way, making that not an issue on those
bodies.

The electronic sensors are inside the mount diameter. It would seem that part of
the bayonet of the lens might make contact inside the mount of the body. That has
nothing to do with the optics. Do you know what exactly is done to modify these
older lenses?

Well, the first thing to do is indeed to machine down the aperture ring (for
non-Ai lenses with an automatic aperture) or just any part of the lens that
would damage the Ai tab on other lenses.

On the surface of the lens mount is a sensor (for Ais lenses) and the
mechanical AF coupling. Those two are designed to handle old lenses.

Inside the camera may be two sensors for Ais (this applies to the FA and the
F4). If the lens extends far enough into the lens mount that it hits those
two, you may have a problem. (Unless it is an Ais lens of course :-)

Then there are the AF contacts. Some old lenses hit those.

There may be an issue with the mirror. Some old lenses require mirror lock up.
I am not sure if some newer cameras have bigger mirrors which would make it
impossible to use certain lenses.

Anyhow, back to the shift lenses: they do not extend into the lens mount,
so they can't damage any AF or Ais parts.

All that is required is to machine down the part that damages the Ai tab.

(Of course, if you do something Nikon says you shouldn't, it is your own
risk)

I put my 16/3.5 on my F4 before I read in the manual that I should not do
that. As far as I can tell, nothing went wrong.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
wrote:

Well, I don't know what the problem is. The prints showed the color
shifts, and maybe it's just bad processing from the lab or bad film. I
shot some slides and sent them to another lab, so I'll see what they
look like when I get them back.

I hope the slides tell you a bit more. The only other thing I can think of
is perhaps some flare from edge lighting, though if you used a hood, or
changed camera to scene position, then that would not happen.



Meanwhile, I put the lens on my D70. Again, the manual says not to use
this lens (based on its serial #) on the D70, as it did for the N90s,
yet I don't see any mounting or electrical problems on either body. I
guess there is a possibility that an unmodified lens could do some
damage and Nikon wants no liability in that regard.

I wish I knew more about the details of the modification. The 35 mm shift
lens I have is not modified. When I went to the PhotoImaging & Design
Expo, and asked if I could try the lens on several different bodies, the
reps didn't want to try it out. However, they had no problem with my
mounting it on an F6 or FM3A.



The nice thing about the D70 is that I can see my shots right away,
which is essential, given that I cannot meter this lens at all on the
D70 (according to the manual, PC lenses will not meter on this body).

Normally, when I use any shift lens, I meter using my Sekonic L-358. I
find that faster than metering unshifted, and then shifting and setting
aperture and focus again. When I use the lens unshifted for imaging, then
the in camera meter is fine (if your camera will work that way). If I
recall correctly, the D70 is based upon a N80 or lower specification SLR.


It might be worth your while to write John White of Ann Arbor, MI on the
subject.
http://www.aiconversions.com/index.html I've dealt with him (converted my
pre ai 55mm macro), and he's a real friendly fella.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com


So I use the sunny 16 rule and LCD screen to get proper exposure.
Fortunately, I do not see any color shifts like I did on the negative
film. That's definitely a good sign. The 1.5x factor makes this a 53mm
lens, which is still useful but not as much as 35mm. Hence, I'd like to
shoot film, and if the slides have good color, then everything's OK.

Yes, the crop factor is a problem, and even the 28mm shift lens would be
affected. However, I don't see any shift lens as one you would use often,
so a little bit of film use with one will not break the bank account.
Hopefully, your slides will look fine, and the problems will be solved.

Crop factor might help improve the quality of the image as the sensor won't
be exposed to the very edge of the image circle.
Of course, you'll have to take a few steps back to get the shot... ;-)

Philip Homburg wrote:

In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:
In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Both the 28/4 and the 35/3.5 do not extend beyond the lens mount. After the
modification to fit Ai cameras they should be safe for AF cameras as well.

I have a 35 mm f2.8 Nippon Kogaku shift lens. While the optics do not extend
beyond the mount, that is not the issue of using this on later camera bodies. One
area that is not clearing the AI tab is the lens outer barrel. It would be easy
enough to machine that down. On the FM, FE, F3, F4, and modified F5, there is a
button to move the AI tab out of the way, making that not an issue on those
bodies.

The electronic sensors are inside the mount diameter. It would seem that part of
the bayonet of the lens might make contact inside the mount of the body. That has
nothing to do with the optics. Do you know what exactly is done to modify these
older lenses?

Well, the first thing to do is indeed to machine down the aperture ring (for
non-Ai lenses with an automatic aperture) or just any part of the lens that
would damage the Ai tab on other lenses.

On the surface of the lens mount is a sensor (for Ais lenses) and the
mechanical AF coupling. Those two are designed to handle old lenses.

Okay, I had read about that for some AI spec lenses, that they might foul the AF
coupling. Some AI lenses have extra blacked out tabs that extend into the barrel
mount area, which I think originally were just for blocking stray light; mostly those
are not on similar focal length AI-S lenses, and also not on shift lenses.



Inside the camera may be two sensors for Ais (this applies to the FA and the
F4). If the lens extends far enough into the lens mount that it hits those
two, you may have a problem. (Unless it is an Ais lens of course :-)

Then there are the AF contacts. Some old lenses hit those.

There is a similar issue with the BR-2 reversing ring. Apparently there is a later
version called a BR-2A. I get the feeling that comparing both of those might indicate
what more to machine away.



There may be an issue with the mirror. Some old lenses require mirror lock up.
I am not sure if some newer cameras have bigger mirrors which would make it
impossible to use certain lenses.

Good point. Some of those types of lenses are somewhat rare, and becoming quite
expensive.



Anyhow, back to the shift lenses: they do not extend into the lens mount,
so they can't damage any AF or Ais parts.

All that is required is to machine down the part that damages the Ai tab.

(Of course, if you do something Nikon says you shouldn't, it is your own
risk)

Makes more sense. I was under the impression that the bayonet edges were the problem.
What I think happened is that Nikon just do not want to list lenses compatible with
newer bodies, when those lenses have been out of production for a while.



I put my 16/3.5 on my F4 before I read in the manual that I should not do
that. As far as I can tell, nothing went wrong.

Not familiar with that one. Fisheye?

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

Matt Clara wrote:

"Gordon Moat" wrote in message
...
. . . . . . . . . . The 35 mm shift
lens I have is not modified. When I went to the PhotoImaging & Design
Expo, and asked if I could try the lens on several different bodies, the
reps didn't want to try it out. However, they had no problem with my
mounting it on an F6 or FM3A........

It might be worth your while to write John White of Ann Arbor, MI on the
subject.
http://www.aiconversions.com/index.html I've dealt with him (converted my
pre ai 55mm macro), and he's a real friendly fella.

Interesting that his site does not mention the shift lenses. Once you use one
of these a while, you start wishing more lenses has shift capability. Anyway,
since these are pre-set lenses, and not AI, AIS, nor other, perhaps he has some
ideas, so I will pop him an e-mail.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com

In article ,
Gordon Moat wrote:
Philip Homburg wrote:
I put my 16/3.5 on my F4 before I read in the manual that I should not do
that. As far as I can tell, nothing went wrong.

Not familiar with that one. Fisheye?

Yes, a very nice fisheye, the predecessor of the 16/2.8. One of the
advantages is that the filters are inside the lens instead of behind the
rear lens element where even smallest amount of dirt becomes visible.

I got one of Ebay that was converted to Ai with an Ai aperture ring.


--
That was it. Done. The faulty Monk was turned out into the desert where it
could believe what it liked, including the idea that it had been hard done
by. It was allowed to keep its horse, since horses were so cheap to make.
-- Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency