Fill light question

Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
Alan

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On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:46:17 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:



Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
Alan

When using a fill light and not a reflector the ideal is the softest,
largest light source you can get. Again, ideally, the fill light
should cast no shadows of it's own and provide the base exposure for
the image. I have been in studios where they use lights bounced off a
white back wall for fill. Placing the fill as close to the lens as
practical on the opposite side of the camera will also keep shadows to
a minimum. But we use what we have available, right?

Alan Browne wrote:

Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.


Sure, a bare light is fine for fill, as long as you're reflecting it off
of a large, or preferably huge, reflector, as McLeod mentioned. Or
shooting through a large sheet of translucent material, like ripstop
nylon, which actually can be a relatively inexpensive yet very effective
way to deal with fill.

Lisa

In article ,
Alan Browne wrote:

Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and
background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd
like
to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
Alan

I'd use a reflector panel instead, of a fill light.

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On Tuesday 22 February 2005 13:46, Alan Browne wrote:



Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and
background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or
'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

The fill should be a softer, broader source than the main light. At the
very least, it be the same size as the main.

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows,
but I'd like to hear other opinions.

Put the fill next to the camera, on the opposite side from the main, and
at around camera level -- adjust height as necessary to eliminate
secondary shadows, if any.

--
Stefan Patric
NoLife Polymath Group

McLeod wrote:
On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 16:46:17 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:



Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.

Cheers,
Alan


When using a fill light and not a reflector the ideal is the softest,
largest light source you can get. Again, ideally, the fill light
should cast no shadows of it's own and provide the base exposure for
the image. I have been in studios where they use lights bounced off a
white back wall for fill. Placing the fill as close to the lens as
practical on the opposite side of the camera will also keep shadows to
a minimum. But we use what we have available, right?

It's that last bit that has me curious. If the fill is as close to the lens
axis as we can manage, then there is little need for it to be a soft source.
That's what I'm getting at...

The reason I ask is that I find the placement of my fill light in a softbox to
be awkward. To get it over the camera and on to the subject it has to be
relatively high and hence away from the lens axis. W/o the softbox I can get it
lower and no shaddows appear that way either.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Lisa Horton wrote:


Alan Browne wrote:

Let's say I have a simple three light portrait setup, fill, key and background.
A soft lighting is desired so the key light is in a softbox (or 'brella).

Is it neccesary to use a softbox/umbrella for the fill light?

(Let's say the fill is at least 1 stop down from the key).

I'm assuming that it isn't, as the key will cast the soft shaddows, but I'd like
to hear other opinions.



Sure, a bare light is fine for fill, as long as you're reflecting it off
of a large, or preferably huge, reflector, as McLeod mentioned. Or
shooting through a large sheet of translucent material, like ripstop
nylon, which actually can be a relatively inexpensive yet very effective
way to deal with fill.

See my other reply. To set a softbox (or 'brella) as fill, I have to have it
high above the camera ... away from the lens axis. This will cast a (very
minor) shaddow under chins.

I could try putting the fill, in the softbox, below the camera, I suppose.

Some time ago (a couple years) I spread a white sheet behind me with two strobes
lighting it up and one key light on the camera side. This took a lot of room
(and both of my smallish studio strobes). I used a minolta flash as key. It
all worked fine (as light) but just took so much room that I couldn't get a good
background separation or use my 100mm lens. (Had to use the 28-70 near the long
end).

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Alan Browne wrote:
Some time ago (a couple years) I spread a white sheet behind me with two
strobes lighting it up and one key light on the camera side. This took
a lot of room (and both of my smallish studio strobes). I used a
minolta flash as key. It all worked fine (as light) but just took so
much room that I couldn't get a good background separation or use my
100mm lens. (Had to use the 28-70 near the long end).

Cheers,
Alan

Would it take less space if you had the sheet right behind you and the
flashes either side of you - possibly slightly in front of you -
pointing back towards the sheet? Or am I completely misvisualising the
setup you were using?

Tom

Tom Hudson wrote:
Alan Browne wrote:

Some time ago (a couple years) I spread a white sheet behind me with
two strobes lighting it up and one key light on the camera side. This
took a lot of room (and both of my smallish studio strobes). I used a
minolta flash as key. It all worked fine (as light) but just took so
much room that I couldn't get a good background separation or use my
100mm lens. (Had to use the 28-70 near the long end).

Cheers,
Alan

Would it take less space if you had the sheet right behind you and the
flashes either side of you - possibly slightly in front of you -
pointing back towards the sheet? Or am I completely misvisualising the
setup you were using?

You're on track. For what you're suggesting, a harder surface (that loses less
light) would be better (akin to what McLeod mentions about a studio he knows).
In my "studio" (aka upstairs living room bereft of furniture) I don't have a
wall that I can use as a reflector (eg: 1 'wall' is the windows, 1 wall is
bookcases, and mirror), so I'd have to put up a backdrop or reflctors.

I could set reflector boards (say 4' on a side) either side of me for the fills
but that's a lot of my strobe power being used for fill light. Gotta buy more
monolights. A fellow near here has an ancient pack/lights for sale, I'll have
to take another look at it.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 09:18:39 -0500, Alan Browne
wrote:

It's that last bit that has me curious. If the fill is as close to the lens
axis as we can manage, then there is little need for it to be a soft source.
That's what I'm getting at...

The reason I ask is that I find the placement of my fill light in a softbox to
be awkward. To get it over the camera and on to the subject it has to be
relatively high and hence away from the lens axis. W/o the softbox I can get it
lower and no shaddows appear that way either.

Cheers,
Alan

As close as practical. If you use a small specular source close to
the lens-subject axis you have to also keep in mind the physical
properties of light-"the angle of incidence=the angle of reflection".
The more specular a light source, the more it reflects, and the closer
to the lens-subject axis the more likely it is to reflect even on
something like skin, in a very unattractive way. You may not even
notice unless you are looking for it but the edge of every greasy pore
could pick up specular highlights. Test, see what you prefer, a soft
light or a smaller light, but be sure to look at the images closely.
I usually use a 5 ft umbrella for fill and if my camera and body are
slightly blocking the umbrella the only place it's noticeable is in
the eye reflection, which I usually retouch anyway. Another way is to
buy a boom stand so you can place it anywhere you want.