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Another nail in the view camera coffin?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 31st 04, 02:06 PM
Robert Feinman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.
Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...

--
Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail:
  #2  
Old July 31st 04, 03:30 PM
Leonard Evens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Robert Feinman wrote:
Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.


As I'm sure you are aware, it is not quite that simple. In addition to
making verticals parallel, you have to adjust the vertical height. At
one point there was a long discussion of that in this newsgroup, and I
think I convinced everyone who understood the issues that there is no
way to do that accurately without using some additional information,
which is not in the picture, although in many cases it can be deduced
from what is there.

Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...


Nor are you likely to.

Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so
fundamental that often view camera users forget its importance. The
single most important choice one makes when planning a picture is the
point of view. The second is just how to frame the subject. That
depends on the choice of focal length, but it also depends on shifts.
If you point the camera up and then digitally correct to create vertical
parallels, you don't change what is framed. One of your examples
indicates that pretty well. The road (empty of interest) in front of
the church is included in all the corrected versions. Of course, you
could crop it out, but that would reduce the resolution of fine detail
if enlarged to the same size final print. With a view camera you can
usualy frame the picture right to start. And of course, you can also
apply digital perspective or other corrections afterwards if you want.

Finally, I'm still thinking about it, but I am not sure by perspective
transformations of the plane image you can produce the same three
dimensional perspective relations you would be able to produce with a
view camera using shifts. My initial intuition is that you can't, but
further thought may show me otherwise.

I regularly go out with a digital camera to scout out interesting
pictures. I then digitally correct perspectives to get some idea of
what they would look like using my view camera. But the results never
seem up to what I can get directly with the view camera using movements.


  #3  
Old July 31st 04, 03:30 PM
Leonard Evens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Robert Feinman wrote:
Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.


As I'm sure you are aware, it is not quite that simple. In addition to
making verticals parallel, you have to adjust the vertical height. At
one point there was a long discussion of that in this newsgroup, and I
think I convinced everyone who understood the issues that there is no
way to do that accurately without using some additional information,
which is not in the picture, although in many cases it can be deduced
from what is there.

Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...


Nor are you likely to.

Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so
fundamental that often view camera users forget its importance. The
single most important choice one makes when planning a picture is the
point of view. The second is just how to frame the subject. That
depends on the choice of focal length, but it also depends on shifts.
If you point the camera up and then digitally correct to create vertical
parallels, you don't change what is framed. One of your examples
indicates that pretty well. The road (empty of interest) in front of
the church is included in all the corrected versions. Of course, you
could crop it out, but that would reduce the resolution of fine detail
if enlarged to the same size final print. With a view camera you can
usualy frame the picture right to start. And of course, you can also
apply digital perspective or other corrections afterwards if you want.

Finally, I'm still thinking about it, but I am not sure by perspective
transformations of the plane image you can produce the same three
dimensional perspective relations you would be able to produce with a
view camera using shifts. My initial intuition is that you can't, but
further thought may show me otherwise.

I regularly go out with a digital camera to scout out interesting
pictures. I then digitally correct perspectives to get some idea of
what they would look like using my view camera. But the results never
seem up to what I can get directly with the view camera using movements.


  #4  
Old July 31st 04, 03:30 PM
Leonard Evens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Robert Feinman wrote:
Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.


As I'm sure you are aware, it is not quite that simple. In addition to
making verticals parallel, you have to adjust the vertical height. At
one point there was a long discussion of that in this newsgroup, and I
think I convinced everyone who understood the issues that there is no
way to do that accurately without using some additional information,
which is not in the picture, although in many cases it can be deduced
from what is there.

Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...


Nor are you likely to.

Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so
fundamental that often view camera users forget its importance. The
single most important choice one makes when planning a picture is the
point of view. The second is just how to frame the subject. That
depends on the choice of focal length, but it also depends on shifts.
If you point the camera up and then digitally correct to create vertical
parallels, you don't change what is framed. One of your examples
indicates that pretty well. The road (empty of interest) in front of
the church is included in all the corrected versions. Of course, you
could crop it out, but that would reduce the resolution of fine detail
if enlarged to the same size final print. With a view camera you can
usualy frame the picture right to start. And of course, you can also
apply digital perspective or other corrections afterwards if you want.

Finally, I'm still thinking about it, but I am not sure by perspective
transformations of the plane image you can produce the same three
dimensional perspective relations you would be able to produce with a
view camera using shifts. My initial intuition is that you can't, but
further thought may show me otherwise.

I regularly go out with a digital camera to scout out interesting
pictures. I then digitally correct perspectives to get some idea of
what they would look like using my view camera. But the results never
seem up to what I can get directly with the view camera using movements.


  #5  
Old July 31st 04, 04:09 PM
Nick Zentena
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Leonard Evens wrote:


Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so



I mentioned that once and was told all you have to do is take eight
pictures and stick them together. Makes carrying a view camera lighter every
time I think of it.

Nick
  #6  
Old July 31st 04, 04:09 PM
Nick Zentena
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Leonard Evens wrote:


Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so



I mentioned that once and was told all you have to do is take eight
pictures and stick them together. Makes carrying a view camera lighter every
time I think of it.

Nick
  #7  
Old July 31st 04, 04:09 PM
Nick Zentena
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

Leonard Evens wrote:


Also, you can't apply a vertical or horizontal shift. It is so



I mentioned that once and was told all you have to do is take eight
pictures and stick them together. Makes carrying a view camera lighter every
time I think of it.

Nick
  #8  
Old July 31st 04, 05:28 PM
Vladamir30
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

What coffin? We have more choices in cameras than we have ever had before,
it seems like every six months or so there's a new camera on the market. We
have plenty of choices in film (and maybe some day digital backs will become
an affordable alternative), there are at least five large format groups on
the internet that enjoy active and spirited participation, you can't buy
several brands and sizes of cameras without a wait of several years yet the
makers keep making them and buyers keep buying them, every workshop I attend
is filled with people using large format cameras, Schneider just brought a
whole new line of large format lenses on the market, Cooke has two very
expensive new lenses, etc. etc. I think large format is more popular than
ever among serious amateurs so if there's a large format coffin out there I
must have missed the funeral.


"Robert Feinman" wrote in message
...
Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.
Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...

--
Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail:



  #9  
Old July 31st 04, 05:28 PM
Vladamir30
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

What coffin? We have more choices in cameras than we have ever had before,
it seems like every six months or so there's a new camera on the market. We
have plenty of choices in film (and maybe some day digital backs will become
an affordable alternative), there are at least five large format groups on
the internet that enjoy active and spirited participation, you can't buy
several brands and sizes of cameras without a wait of several years yet the
makers keep making them and buyers keep buying them, every workshop I attend
is filled with people using large format cameras, Schneider just brought a
whole new line of large format lenses on the market, Cooke has two very
expensive new lenses, etc. etc. I think large format is more popular than
ever among serious amateurs so if there's a large format coffin out there I
must have missed the funeral.


"Robert Feinman" wrote in message
...
Leaving aside film size, the two features that view cameras still
have over other formats are the ability to adjust perspective and
the plane of focus.
By using a digital editor one can generate the same perspective
effects from an image taken with a conventional camera afterwards.

I've been playing with this feature in Photoshop and have put up
an additional tip about this on my web site. This one shows the
creative uses the extreme perspective adjustments can yield.
Just follow the tips link on my home page, if you are interested.

I still haven't solved the plane of focus problem, however...

--
Robert D Feinman
Landscapes, Cityscapes and Panoramic Photographs
http://robertdfeinman.com
mail:



  #10  
Old July 31st 04, 07:39 PM
Gregory Blank
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Another nail in the view camera coffin?

I feel compelled to concur. It was interesting at a recent
street fair where I showed my work how many people digital
camera users "dslr" in hand stopped to look at my LF
prints. I sensed that they were rather dumbfounded at the
by the imagery, I also sensed a certain envy.
But I think there was also a certain amount of appreciation.


In article ,
"Vladamir30" wrote:

What coffin? We have more choices in cameras than we have ever had before,
it seems like every six months or so there's a new camera on the market. We
have plenty of choices in film (and maybe some day digital backs will become
an affordable alternative), there are at least five large format groups on
the internet that enjoy active and spirited participation, you can't buy
several brands and sizes of cameras without a wait of several years yet the
makers keep making them and buyers keep buying them, every workshop I attend
is filled with people using large format cameras, Schneider just brought a
whole new line of large format lenses on the market, Cooke has two very
expensive new lenses, etc. etc. I think large format is more popular than
ever among serious amateurs so if there's a large format coffin out there I
must have missed the funeral.


--
LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
 




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