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So how good is 36 megapixels?



 
 
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  #11  
Old March 16th 13, 09:01 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
R. Mark Clayton
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Posts: 334
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?


"Me" wrote in message
...
... compared to 24 megapixels.
Of course it's a bit better, but not much better.
With the best lens they've tested, DXO only give the D800 a 5% (linear)
"perceptual" resolution advantage over the 24mp D3x.
That's measurable in the lab, but you'd never see it in the field or in
print.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Pub...sons-to-switch

Meanwhile, there seem to be rumours of 50, 60, 70mp Fx sensors "coming
soon. I don't believe it:
http://oi50.tinypic.com/10qgtjn.jpg


It depends on how much you want to blow it up!


  #12  
Old March 16th 13, 10:21 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
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Posts: 236
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

On 15/03/2013 6:37 PM, Me wrote:
... compared to 24 megapixels.
Of course it's a bit better, but not much better.
With the best lens they've tested, DXO only give the D800 a 5% (linear)
"perceptual" resolution advantage over the 24mp D3x.
That's measurable in the lab, but you'd never see it in the field or in
print.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Pub...sons-to-switch


Meanwhile, there seem to be rumours of 50, 60, 70mp Fx sensors "coming
soon. I don't believe it:
http://oi50.tinypic.com/10qgtjn.jpg



What do we want to achieve, a 12Mb FF camera is far superior to 35mm
film, more pixels are better.

A 900mm x 1200mm image printed off a 6mp camera is better than a poster
print off 35mm film.

Yes there is far more detail in 36Mp and those prints jump out at you.
  #13  
Old March 16th 13, 10:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rob
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Posts: 236
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

On 16/03/2013 12:52 PM, RichA wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:09 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
Me wrote:
Of course more megapixels is good, eventually there will be no need for
an AA filter.


At the price of tons of pixels with practically no information,
which never the less need to be stored, backupped and computed
over for RAW processing.

-Wolfgang


It's not as bad as film photo scanners storing colour images at 48
bits.



Been there done that! LOL
  #14  
Old March 17th 13, 02:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

Rob wrote:
On 16/03/2013 12:52 PM, RichA wrote:
On Mar 15, 8:09 pm, Wolfgang Weisselberg
wrote:
Me wrote:
Of course more megapixels is good, eventually there will be no need for
an AA filter.


At the price of tons of pixels with practically no information,
which never the less need to be stored, backupped and computed
over for RAW processing.


It's not as bad as film photo scanners storing colour images at 48
bits.


Been there done that! LOL


And? Do you concur that there are only 256 possible shadings
of R, G and B each? And that the people using 16bit channels
are just wasting space?

-Wolfgang
  #15  
Old March 17th 13, 02:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Wolfgang Weisselberg
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Posts: 5,285
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

Rob wrote:
On 15/03/2013 6:37 PM, Me wrote:
... compared to 24 megapixels.
Of course it's a bit better, but not much better.
With the best lens they've tested, DXO only give the D800 a 5% (linear)
"perceptual" resolution advantage over the 24mp D3x.
That's measurable in the lab, but you'd never see it in the field or in
print.
http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Pub...sons-to-switch


Meanwhile, there seem to be rumours of 50, 60, 70mp Fx sensors "coming
soon. I don't believe it:
http://oi50.tinypic.com/10qgtjn.jpg


What do we want to achieve, a 12Mb FF camera is far superior to 35mm
film, more pixels are better.


Depends a lot on the film. However, this page disagrees with
you, at least for some films.
http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/...l.1/index.html


A 900mm x 1200mm image printed off a 6mp camera is better than a poster
print off 35mm film.


Better in which way and by what measure and with how much
post processing?
And did you use proper techniques and good, finegrained film?

-Wolfgang
  #16  
Old March 18th 13, 02:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?


"Me" wrote in message
...
36 mp is NOT 50% greater resolution than 24mp - linear resolution should
be used, in which case the difference is about 22%.

If you think you can see the difference in result between a 10mp camera
and an 11mp camera, then that's about the average difference in practice
you'd see between say a d600 and a d800.


The mathematics proving no conflict between those two statements evades me.
Can you spell it out more clearly?

Trevor.




  #17  
Old March 18th 13, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?


"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 16/03/2013 01:18, Doug McDonald wrote:
Lenses are quite the spatial frequency filter somewhere above 20 or so
Mpix on a full frame sensor.


Absurd: I own an 18 mpixel Canon7D, a crop frame camera: and it shows
bad moire on subjects like an LCD TV. And it has an AA filter.

Doug McDonald


Please you could point to a sample image? What does it look like zoomed
right in to 1:1 viewing? I wonder whether the moiré may be due to
resampling for your display?



I can easily get moire when using photoshop at other than 100% view also.
Proves nothing about the camera though.

Trevor.




  #18  
Old March 18th 13, 02:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?


"R. Mark Clayton" wrote in message
...
Meanwhile, there seem to be rumours of 50, 60, 70mp Fx sensors "coming
soon. I don't believe it:
http://oi50.tinypic.com/10qgtjn.jpg


It depends on how much you want to blow it up!


No, it also depends on how much improvement can be made in lens design, or
it's just a number for the sake of a number. Sensor design is already
outstripping lens capability, and it will be *FAR* easier to improve the
former than the latter.

Trevor.


  #19  
Old March 18th 13, 03:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Doug McDonald[_8_]
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Posts: 20
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

On 3/17/2013 8:46 PM, Trevor wrote:
"David Taylor" wrote in message
...
On 16/03/2013 01:18, Doug McDonald wrote:
Lenses are quite the spatial frequency filter somewhere above 20 or so
Mpix on a full frame sensor.

Absurd: I own an 18 mpixel Canon7D, a crop frame camera: and it shows
bad moire on subjects like an LCD TV. And it has an AA filter.

Doug McDonald


Please you could point to a sample image? What does it look like zoomed
right in to 1:1 viewing? I wonder whether the moiré may be due to
resampling for your display?



I can easily get moire when using photoshop at other than 100% view also.
Proves nothing about the camera though.

Trevor.


I have the pictures. No, I', not so stupid as to not check for moire at
100% or 200% view. They are absolutely hilarious. Of course. I did say
LCD TV. And oh yes, I did use my cheapest lens (50 mm f/1.7, at f/4.5),
but the moire is visible with my 24-105mm f/4L zoom, just not as
horrific. Pics posted tomorrow on Dropbox, I can't do that from home.

Doug McDonald

  #20  
Old March 18th 13, 06:35 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 51
Default So how good is 36 megapixels?

On 18/03/2013 2:42 p.m., Trevor wrote:
"Me" wrote in message
...
36 mp is NOT 50% greater resolution than 24mp - linear resolution should
be used, in which case the difference is about 22%.

If you think you can see the difference in result between a 10mp camera
and an 11mp camera, then that's about the average difference in practice
you'd see between say a d600 and a d800.


The mathematics proving no conflict between those two statements evades me.
Can you spell it out more clearly?


There's a slight mistake in what I said above, should read "10 and 11mp
image".

The rest is easy. DXO claim that with the very best lens they have
tested (IIRC the 85mm f1.4 G), the perceptual resolution in megapixels
is about 22mp with a D800, and 19mp with a D3x. The worse the lens, the
less the difference.
If you need a definition of "perceptual megapixels" then I suggest you
visit DXO's site.
Don't forget that "perception /is/ reality".
Of course you may as well have that extra tiny bit of resolution, but
don't expect it to make much difference to your prints at any size.

 




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