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Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 8th 04, 03:17 PM
SofaKing
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


  #2  
Old April 8th 04, 03:33 PM
Mark in Maine
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:17:53 GMT, "SofaKing"
wrote:

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.

A few thoughts:

In my case, I have a permanent darkroom, the lights are on in there
during setup, but when it is unused, or when I am working, it is dark
in there - so dark bottles are probably not all that important since
the room is dark almost all the time.

Having said that - I use a lot of little bottles - for example - I use
HC-110 as my main film developer - I dilute the syrup into the stock
solution strength, then put it into 2oz bottles - brown glass, which I
buy in bulk and they are not expensive (about $0.30 each?). To get
the working solution, I mix one entire bottle with the appropriate
amount of water.

I do a similar thing with Kodak HCA, Dektol, etc, using 2oz, 4oz and
8oz bottles as is appropriate so that for each working session I use a
small number of bottles and never use a partial bottle. Since the
bottles are full, there is little air in them, and I suspect that the
stock solutions might last longer - but I have no data on this.

The main chemical that I do not use as one shot is fixer - this is
because disposal of it in my case is a PITA, so I use it to
exhaustion. For fixer, I use brown glass 1gal jugs. Don't remember
what the 1 Gal jugs cost, but I don't think that they were as much as
the plastic ones that you are looking at.

If I recall correctly, the type of bottles that I use, which can be
found at scientific supply houses are referred to as 'Boston Round' or
something like that - I have found two different types of caps for
these - ones with plastic cone shaped liners, and ones with cardboard
liners - I prefer the plastic cone ones since they hold up better and
probably retain fewer chemicals on them.


Mark

  #3  
Old April 8th 04, 03:37 PM
Mark A
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

"SofaKing" wrote in message
news:laddc.52524$Ig.40384@pd7tw2no...
My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


Spend a few bucks and get some glass jugs.
http://www.specialtybottle.com/


  #4  
Old April 8th 04, 03:43 PM
jjs
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

In article laddc.52524$Ig.40384@pd7tw2no, "SofaKing"
wrote:

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


If you don't mind semi-transparent plastic, then 1-gallon bottles with
caps can be had new for between $1 to $3 each. Check out
http://www.usplastic.com. Try searching on "industrial jugs". Their
delivery service is very fast.

But what we could really use here is some true expert input from a
plastics engineer. Plastic technology is a mystery. Some plastics let
oxygen flow through, some let hydrocarbons pass, some are dark looking but
are not really opaque to light. What's best for chemicals? In our lab we
have some true light-opaque chemistry bottles that cost as much as $60 for
a quart size.
  #5  
Old April 8th 04, 03:47 PM
John
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:17:53 GMT, "SofaKing"
wrote:

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


Use soda bottles (PET) properly labels and store them in a
cabinet.

Also, consider purchasing via mail order.

http://www.specialtybottle.com/store.asp

Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #6  
Old April 8th 04, 03:59 PM
PSsquare
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Default Mixing HC110 and Storage Bottles


"Mark in Maine" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:17:53 GMT, "SofaKing"
wrote:

Having said that - I use a lot of little bottles - for example - I use
HC-110 as my main film developer - I dilute the syrup into the stock
solution strength, then put it into 2oz bottles - brown glass, which I
buy in bulk and they are not expensive (about $0.30 each?). To get
the working solution, I mix one entire bottle with the appropriate
amount of water.

\Mark,

Mark,

Nice to see a discussion of darkroom practice in the newsgroup. Now, on to
the subject.

Check out this link: http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/

This presents an alternative to making the first dilution of HC110 and
avoids any aging of the stock solution. My darkroom instructor recommended
it and I have found it very practical. I simply go directly from syrup to
final dilution using 16.1 ml of HC110 in 485 ml of filtered water. I measure
the syrup in a 50 ml glass graduated cylinder, so I am accurate to around
plus/minus .15 ml. After measuring the syrup, I add around 10 ml of water,
cap it with my thumb (wearing a protective glove) and shake it before
putting it in the final bottle. I rinse several more times thru the
cylinder so that I am sure to get residual syrup into the mix. I put mix my
solution in a 500ml water bottle so there is little error and no real
measurement of the water; just fill the bottle to a mark on the neck that
equals 16.1 plus 485 ml of solution. Seems close enough since .15 ml is
around 2%. Any error in measurement is likely less important than
degradation of the developer activity. Use the solution once and discard.
No issue of storing at all.

Also, I have found that the simple 1 liter pop bottles are perfect for my
8x10 trays. Everything is stored in a cabinet in a room that is normally
dark anyhow. So light exposure is at the absolute minimum.

Regards,

PSsquare


  #7  
Old April 8th 04, 04:14 PM
Patrick Gainer
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs



John wrote:

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 14:17:53 GMT, "SofaKing"
wrote:

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


Use soda bottles (PET) properly labels and store them in a
cabinet.

Also, consider purchasing via mail order.

http://www.specialtybottle.com/store.asp

Regards,

Drink lots of prune juice. It comes in nice wide mouthed brown bottles
of various sizes.
John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email

  #8  
Old April 8th 04, 04:24 PM
Nicholas O. Lindan
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Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

"SofaKing" wrote

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs!


Cute, isn't it? Check out the price of an empty spray bottle at the
hardware store - $3.00 - compared to the same bottle filled with
Windex - $1.50.

Chemical jugs are made from thicker PE plastic than milk-jugs.
I have found the best equivalent to be Minute-Maid Orange Juice
jugs at $5.00 each when filled with rather good orange juice.

As other's have mentioned, 1 liter/quart PETE soda bottles are
also suitable as PETE is reasonably gas impermeable. And splitting
a gallon of solution into smaller lots makes it last a lot longer.

My favorite, though, is the Cubitaner:
http://bestcontainers.com/hedpak---c...packaging.html
Dektol stock keeps for a year (when made with boiled distilled water; stirred,
not shaken).

Do-it-yourself cubitainers can be made from the cartons and aluminized
Mylar bags from wine-in-a-box (don't even think of drinking the wine,
it's uniformly awful).

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Consulting Engineer: Electronics; Informatics; Photonics.
psst.. want to buy an f-stop timer? nolindan.com/da/fstop/


  #9  
Old April 8th 04, 05:06 PM
John
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Posts: n/a
Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 11:14:56 -0400, Patrick Gainer
wrote:

Use soda bottles (PET) properly labels and store them in a
cabinet.

Also, consider purchasing via mail order.

http://www.specialtybottle.com/store.asp

Drink lots of prune juice. It comes in nice wide mouthed brown bottles
of various sizes.


And it just might help out the conversation on this group !


Regards,

John S. Douglas, Photographer - http://www.darkroompro.com
Please remove the "_" when replying via email
  #10  
Old April 8th 04, 05:39 PM
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: n/a
Default Alternatives to Brown Plastic Jugs

On 4/8/2004 7:43 AM jjs spake thus:

In article laddc.52524$Ig.40384@pd7tw2no, "SofaKing"
wrote:

My local photo place wants $9 a pop for those 1 gal. chemical jugs! I feel
it's a little much for 25 cents worth of plastic. Are they magic or
something. Couldn't I use rinsed out antifreeze jugs or windshield washer
jugs? Do they have to be opaque? Thx.


If you don't mind semi-transparent plastic, then 1-gallon bottles with
caps can be had new for between $1 to $3 each. Check out
http://www.usplastic.com. Try searching on "industrial jugs". Their
delivery service is very fast.

But what we could really use here is some true expert input from a
plastics engineer. Plastic technology is a mystery. Some plastics let
oxygen flow through, some let hydrocarbons pass, some are dark looking but
are not really opaque to light. What's best for chemicals?


Perhaps you missed my post on this very question in another thread
("Rodinal"). Here's the gist of it:

From his page on plastic bottles ["he" being someone named "Ryuji"]
(http://silvergrain.org/Photo-Tech/plastic.html):

Why manufacturers and chemists recommend glass bottles for storing
photographic chemicals has a lot to do with idiot-proof factors. With a
little attention, inexpensive and convenient plastic bottles can be used
for most photographic chemical storage without compromising their shelf
life.

Plastic materials and chemical properties

material gas permeability acid resistance max usable temp
---------------------------------------------------------------
PET (PETE) very good reasonable 60°C
HDPE poor good 120°C
PVC very good reasonable 70°C
LDPE very poor good 80°C
PVdc (Saran wrap) excellent reasonable 65°C


PET (polyethylene terephthalate) is used as a clear (colorless or tinted)
bottle material in bottled water products. It has very small permeability
to oxygen and nitrogen.

Use PET for developers. Use PET or HDPE for most other chemicals. If you
store acetic acid stop bath in concentrated form, use HDPE. If PVC coated
cap is available, use it by all means.

My bottles of D-76, Microphen, and various other experimental formula are
still alive and as vigorous in filled and tightly capped 500ml PET bottles
after two years!


And as someone else pointed out, the best is still glass (assuming a good
tight seal of some non-permeable material).


--
.... but never have I encountered a guy who could not be bothered
to make his own case on his own show.

- Eric Alterman on his appearance on Dennis Miller's bomb of a show
on CNBC (3/17/04)

 




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