APS-C in compact

David J Taylor wrote:
wrote:
Do you think there is any chance we'll see APX-C size sensor in
compact digicam ?

Like this one, you mean?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

No, this is huge, this is not a compact, note that dpreview calls it a
SLR-like. I'm thinking something like the Olympus Epic Stylus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Stylus_Epic
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

This is a tiny camera, smaller than ideal for me actually, but it takes a
"full frame film" (24x36mm), and has 3 time zoom (38 - 115). Why can't they
make compact digital camera that size ?

Is it because a CCD needs a lot more light than a film ?
What about the super duper new sensors like the 6th generation Fuji ?

On Fri, 06 Oct 2006 19:22:07 GMT, wrote:
David J Taylor wrote:
wrote:
Do you think there is any chance we'll see APX-C size sensor in
compact digicam ?

Like this one, you mean?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

No, this is huge, this is not a compact, note that dpreview calls it a
SLR-like. I'm thinking something like the Olympus Epic Stylus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Stylus_Epic
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

This is a tiny camera, smaller than ideal for me actually, but it takes a
"full frame film" (24x36mm), and has 3 time zoom (38 - 115). Why can't they
make compact digital camera that size ?

Huh? From the wiki article that you link to,
"The Epic has a Fixed 35mm F2.8 lens, and can focus down to 14 inches".
Where's the zoom lens?

That fixed-length lens probably has a lot to do with how small the
camera is. Compare and contrast with an f/2.8 full-frame 28-70 lens.

-dms

Daniel Silevitch writes:
Huh? From the wiki article that you link to,
"The Epic has a Fixed 35mm F2.8 lens, and can focus down to 14 inches".
Where's the zoom lens?

There was a fixed version and several zoom versions. See the picture
that was linked.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


That fixed-length lens probably has a lot to do with how small the
camera is. Compare and contrast with an f/2.8 full-frame 28-70 lens.

The lenses in P/S are much slower than that.

On 06 Oct 2006 13:00:48 -0700, Paul Rubin wrote:
Daniel Silevitch writes:
Huh? From the wiki article that you link to,
"The Epic has a Fixed 35mm F2.8 lens, and can focus down to 14 inches".
Where's the zoom lens?

There was a fixed version and several zoom versions. See the picture
that was linked.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

I rather doubt that zoom was an f/2.8, though. Google The Stylus 120
(couldn't find specs on the 115 pictured above in a quick search) has a
zoom lens of 38-120 mm, f/5.6-12.6. That's the real answer to "small
full-frame camera with zoom lens": A really really slow lens.

That fixed-length lens probably has a lot to do with how small the
camera is. Compare and contrast with an f/2.8 full-frame 28-70 lens.

The lenses in P/S are much slower than that.

See above.

-dms

"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
...
Daniel Silevitch writes:
Huh? From the wiki article that you link to,
"The Epic has a Fixed 35mm F2.8 lens, and can focus down to 14 inches".
Where's the zoom lens?

There was a fixed version and several zoom versions. See the picture
that was linked.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


That fixed-length lens probably has a lot to do with how small the
camera is. Compare and contrast with an f/2.8 full-frame 28-70 lens.

The lenses in P/S are much slower than that.

Many of today's P&S are f/2.8, and even faster!

Bill Crocker

On Fri, 6 Oct 2006 16:32:23 -0400, "Bill Crocker"
wrote:


"Paul Rubin" wrote in message
...
Daniel Silevitch writes:
Huh? From the wiki article that you link to,
"The Epic has a Fixed 35mm F2.8 lens, and can focus down to 14 inches".
Where's the zoom lens?

There was a fixed version and several zoom versions. See the picture
that was linked.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


That fixed-length lens probably has a lot to do with how small the
camera is. Compare and contrast with an f/2.8 full-frame 28-70 lens.

The lenses in P/S are much slower than that.

Many of today's P&S are f/2.8, and even faster!

Tint, tiny sensors. No comparison with film.

--
John Bean

Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan) wrote:
"Bill Crocker" wrote in message
. ..

"David J Taylor"
wrote in
message . uk...
wrote:
Do you think there is any chance we'll see APX-C size sensor in
compact digicam ?

Like this one, you mean?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

David


Compact? Far from it. That thing is huge!

hm...this is unfortunatley a must...big sensor, big lens. this is how things
work. That's one of main reasons that sensors in compacts are kept small.

No, not really. APS film cameras can be very small. How about this one:
http://tinyurl.com/q5vr6 (goes to Canon's site). This camera is small
and uses APS film. Why couldn't someone make a camera of that size, but
with an APS-size sensor instead of APS-size film?

I have a feeling that it's not a technical limitation but a marketing
one. Larger sensors are more expensive, and someone who spends a lot of
money on an expensive camera won't want to live with the limitations of
a tiny lens. In other words, a compact with an APS-size sensor would
have no market - it would be too expensive for casual P&S
photographers, and have too poor picture quality for more serious
photographers.

-Gniewko

wrote:
Protoncek (ex.SleeperMan) wrote:

"Bill Crocker" wrote in message
m...

"David J Taylor"
wrote in
message . uk...

wrote:

Do you think there is any chance we'll see APX-C size sensor in
compact digicam ?

Like this one, you mean?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

David


Compact? Far from it. That thing is huge!

hm...this is unfortunatley a must...big sensor, big lens. this is how things
work. That's one of main reasons that sensors in compacts are kept small.


No, not really. APS film cameras can be very small. How about this one:
http://tinyurl.com/q5vr6 (goes to Canon's site). This camera is small
and uses APS film. Why couldn't someone make a camera of that size, but
with an APS-size sensor instead of APS-size film?

I have a feeling that it's not a technical limitation but a marketing
one. Larger sensors are more expensive, and someone who spends a lot of
money on an expensive camera won't want to live with the limitations of
a tiny lens. In other words, a compact with an APS-size sensor would
have no market - it would be too expensive for casual P&S
photographers, and have too poor picture quality for more serious
photographers.

-Gniewko



But look at the tiny Zoom range (2.3X)
Even the cheapest, plain vanilla digicams have a 3X zoom.
The problem is making a long Zoom, large aperture, long focal length
lens assemply, that is compact, light, and inexpensive.
Bob Williams

David J Taylor wrote:

wrote:

Do you think there is any chance we'll see APX-C size sensor in
compact digicam ?


Like this one, you mean?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydscr1/

David

Now! If Panny could make an FZ model with APS sensor and make it a pound
lighter than the R1, they would OWN the digicam market. :-)
I think they have just about reached (exceeded?) the limit of the 1/1.8"
sensor with 10 MP ad 12X Zoom.
Bob Williams

writes:

No, this is huge, this is not a compact, note that dpreview calls it a
SLR-like. I'm thinking something like the Olympus Epic Stylus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympus_Stylus_Epic
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0...1.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The Stylus Epic is a lovely fixed-focal-length camera with a fast f/2.8
lens. I still own one. It's fast to open and close, fast to shoot, and
the f/2.8 lens is better than that of most film P&S cameras. But
there's definitely no zoom. The Yashica T4 is another camera with
similar characteristics.

The Amazon photo is for a different camera, the "Stylus Epic Zoom 115".
Though I haven't used that particular one, I have used other Olympus
Stylus zoom-lens cameras (still got that one too). The zoom has a slow
maximum aperture, and it's physically slow to extend and retract.

These are really two different classes of camera.

This is a tiny camera, smaller than ideal for me actually, but it takes a
"full frame film" (24x36mm), and has 3 time zoom (38 - 115). Why can't they
make compact digital camera that size ?

Someone *could* make a digital camera in either of these classes: fast
fixed lens, or slow zoom. But the large sensor would raise its price
well above that of other P&S cameras. How much would you pay for a
camera with good noise performance, but either a fixed focal length or a
slow zoom.

Dave