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Jobo & Pre Rinse?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 23rd 11, 08:16 PM
Darkroom User Darkroom User is offline
Junior Member
 
First recorded activity by PhotoBanter: Aug 2010
Posts: 27
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?

I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum with reels.
I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction book recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the developer. Is it essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?
  #2  
Old July 23rd 11, 11:59 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Martin Riddle
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Posts: 69
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?



"Darkroom User" wrote in message
news

I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum with reels.
I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction book
recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the developer. Is it
essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?




--
Darkroom User


Send them an email, they will answer your question.
http://www.jobo.com/web/Contact.171.0.html

I had some problems with their 3-bath kit is the past, and they were
very responsive.

Cheers


  #3  
Old July 24th 11, 01:17 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Frank Pittel
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Posts: 92
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?

That's a loaded question and I'm sure you're going to get a lot of different answers.
I always used a prewash for a couple of reasons. The first is that without the prewash
my development times were to short at under 5min. The second was that I get more even development.
When I didn't use the prewash I noticed problems with streaking and uneven development.

One thing that's very important is that if you use a multi reel tank you have to fill the
tank with reels or you'll get horrible streaking. I ran into this while using very dilute developers
and needed to use the larger tanks to get the developer volume I needed.

As to my method I bring the wash water to temp in the tempering tank. In my never humble opinion that has the
added benefit of bringing the reels and film to temp so when you add the developer the temp and therefore
contrast is more consistent.

Frank


Darkroom User wrote:

: I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum with reels.
: I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction book
: recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the developer. Is it
: essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
: Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?




: --
: Darkroom User

--




-------------------
Keep working dumbo needs the money
  #4  
Old July 24th 11, 05:00 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Mr. Strat
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Posts: 1,089
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?

In article , Darkroom User
wrote:

I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum with reels.
I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction book
recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the developer. Is it
essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?


Don't know. I always used Nikkor tanks and reels.
  #5  
Old July 25th 11, 08:46 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
polly filler
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Posts: 13
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?


"darkroommike" wrote in message
...
On Jul 23, 2:16 pm, Darkroom User Darkroom.User.
wrote:
I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum with reels.
I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction book
recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the developer. Is it
essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?

--
Darkroom User


I do a lot of rotary processing with a Unicolor System, I think the
presoak is a good idea but i would not recommend D76 (at any
dilution). I have had my best luck with HC-110 and TMax developers.
First, you make only what you need and, second, D76 tends to stain the
reels quite a bit, quite noticeable on the white Unicolor reels. I
use a water rinse or stop bath, depends on film, and one shot paper
strength fixer.

Tmax 400 in ID11 1:3 for 15mins is very nice too


  #6  
Old July 26th 11, 04:22 PM
Keith Tapscott. Keith Tapscott. is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by PhotoBanter: Feb 2005
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by polly filler View Post

I do a lot of rotary processing with a Unicolor System, I think the
presoak is a good idea but i would not recommend D76 (at any
dilution).

First, you make only what you need and, second, D76 tends to stain the
reels quite a bit, quite noticeable on the white Unicolor reels.

Tmax 400 in ID11 1:3 for 15mins is very nice too
You don't recommend D76 at any dilution, yet you like ID11 diluted 1:3
What do you perceive to be so different between ID11 and D76?
  #7  
Old July 28th 11, 01:30 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
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Posts: 752
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?


"Darkroom User"
wrote in message
news

I have bought a Jobo CPE2 with the lift and a 1540 drum
with reels.
I want to use TMax 100 and 400 in D76 1:1. The instruction
book
recommends a 5 minute pre rinse before pouring in the
developer. Is it
essential to pre soak films if using a Jobo?
Does anyone here use a Jobo, if so, what is your method?




--
Darkroom User


There are two reasons Jobo reccomends a pre-soak. One
is that it saturates the emulsion and contols the rate of
uptake of the developer. That insures it is taken up evenly
to eliminate blotching. The development is also slowed
somewhat because the "induction time", that is, the time
between immersing the film in the developer and the time the
image begins to appear, is lengthened. Because of the very
rapid agitation in the drum the development time is quite
short compared to other non-machine methods so that
increasing it a little also tends to insure uniformity. The
second reason is to temper the tank. This is more necessary
for color development done at elevated temperature so that
the temperature of the developer is not suddenly changed
when entering the tank.
Kodak recommends a pre-soak for hand processing of
sheet film in a tray to prevent the sheets from sticking.
While some manufacturers seem to discourage pre-soaking
I can find no very good reason not to.
Elsewhere in this thread it is recommended that D-76
not be used. Some seem to have a predjucide against this
developer but it works very well for many films.
Somewhat higher speed and slightly finer grain can be
had with Xtol. There are other good developers but D-76
remains the standard of comparison after some eighty-five
years.
If Jobo has recommended times I would at least start
with them. I think Kodak may give drum development times for
some film and developer combinations. Otherwise you have to
experiment. Times in a machine like the Jobo are likely to
be surprizingly short because of the very effective
agitation.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA




  #8  
Old July 30th 11, 07:58 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
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Posts: 752
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?


"darkroommike" wrote in message
...
On Jul 27, 7:30 pm, "Richard Knoppow"
wrote:
"Darkroom User"
wrote in
messagenews

My reason for "disavowing" D-76 and ID-11 has nothing to do
with their
suitability as a developer but rather everything to do with
the black
deposits they leave on my pristine white film processing
reels. I'm
not any sort of real chemist, I do not know what these
deposits are,
but I spent more time cleaning reels than I spent processing
film.
Dektol/D72 leave the same sort of deposits on my paper
developing
tray. The situation seems exacerbated by plastic trays and
tanks, the
reels can get so bad that the film drags as it is loaded.
I do not
see it when using stainless (!) steel film reels. I also
use my film
developer "one shot" so liquid concentrates such as HC-110
and TMax
work better with my peculiar analog workflow.

I have not had that problem with D-76 but have with
Dektol. It appears to be deposits of metallic silver. I
don't know why either developer should do it more than
others. I use stainless steel tanks for film, except for
large sheet film, but use plastic for prints. I get rid of
the deposit on the developing tray with old-fashioned
bichromate glass cleaner but these days you have to make
your own. I think other silver bleaches will work. I have
not tried concentrated rapid fixer with added citric acid
but its an effective silver bleach and might work.
When AGFA was still in business I used AGFA Neutol Plus
print developer, I don't remember it leaving the same
deposits. Since Jobo tanks are made of plastic its possible
D-76 leaves a silver deposit on them more readily than on
stainless steel although I don't understand the chemistry
well enough to know why it would.
There ARE better developers than D-76 but its very
reliable and works for nearly all films coming close to the
results from the better developers, so I continue to use it.

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



  #9  
Old August 14th 11, 04:28 PM
Keith Tapscott. Keith Tapscott. is offline
Senior Member
 
First recorded activity by PhotoBanter: Feb 2005
Posts: 112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Knoppow View Post

There ARE better developers than D-76 but its very
reliable and works for nearly all films coming close to the
results from the better developers, so I continue to use it.

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
You mention that there are better developers (plural, not singular) than D-76, which one's are you referring to?

Xtol is supposed to be more eco-friendly and is often cited as giving a slight improvement over D-76.
  #10  
Old August 16th 11, 12:26 AM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
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Posts: 752
Default Jobo & Pre Rinse?


"Keith Tapscott."
wrote in message
...

Richard Knoppow;927979 Wrote:


There ARE better developers than D-76 but its very
reliable and works for nearly all films coming close to
the
results from the better developers, so I continue to use
it.

--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL
ou mention that there are better
developers (plural, not singular) than

D-76, which one's are you referring to?

Xtol is supposed to be more eco-friendly and is often
cited as giving a
slight improvement over D-76.




--
Keith Tapscott.


Kodak indicates that Xtol will yeild slightly higher
speed, slightly finer grain, and slightly greater acutance
than D-76. The only problem with Xtol is that it got off to
a bad start with the sudden death syndrome. I have not heard
anything about this for some time so perhaps its been cured.
Xtol is also a self-replenishing developer, that is, the
same solution is used for replenishing so one does not have
to stock two different solutions. Its probably the optimum
developer for most B&W use. AFAIK no one else makes an
identical developer although some may have names that
suggest they are the same. The patents for Xtol are
available and I suppose one could mix the stuff from scratch
but I think some of the components might be a PITA to find.
Having said that D-76 works for nearly everything and
while not quite as good as Xtol its close. Its easy to mix
from scratch if necessary and is absolutely reliable.


--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles
WB6KBL



 




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