Newbie interested in experimenting with MF - suggestions?

Hi all. I've been lurking here for a little while, and I'm hoping I can pick
up a few pointers.

I'm currently shooting both digital and 35mm. Digital-wise, I'm using a 10D
SLR, mainly with prime lenses, and tend to use mostly aperture-priority or
full manual, using partial metering to expose for the highlights, as though
I was shooting slides. For 35mm, I'm using a Voigtlander Bessa-R rangefinder
with either Velvia or B&W print film, and in both media types, I find the
"manual" method of shooting suits my style.

Of late, I've become curious about medium format equipment, and I think it
would be fun to experiment, but I have absolutely no clue about equipment.
There's plenty of stuff for 35mm lens and camera systems on the 'net, but
MF stuff seems to be a bit rarer.

So if I was to look at renting some medium format equipment and shooting a
few slides, given my background, what sort of thing would be a good starting
point? Intuitively, I'm thinking I want to be looking at either a MF
rangefinder or SLR, on the basis that those types of cameras would be most
familliar, but am willing to consider alternatives. Any ideas?

Mamiya 6 or 7 are great RF types of cameras. You can always play around
with a Holga for like $30, or look into LOTS of good used equipment. I
bought a Mamiya RZ67 II system, but that isn't the cheapest. The Mamiya
645e system can be had for $700 new. The Pentax 645 system is nice as
well, and the Pentax 67 system is a great alternative to the mamiya 7.
Its more of an SLR type than a RF type but it's nice. The thing would
be to start at the size of negative you want. 6x4.5, 6x6, 6x7, or 6x9.
All of them are considered medium format. This first choice will cut
down your choices in cameras. For example, unless you get the Hassy H1
system at around $5K, you must go 6x6 for a Hassy...If you want 6x7 in a
RF style camerta, the Mamiya 7 is the way to go. If 645 slr style, the
Mamiya 645, Pentax 645, Contax 645 are all available. If you want the
option at a later date, then the Mamiya RZ can take 645, 6x6, and 6x7
backs. 6x9 is a bigger negative but there are some issues with film
flatness on some cameras.

JR

"Chris Brown" wrote in message
...
Hi all. I've been lurking here for a little while, and I'm hoping I can
pick
up a few pointers.

I'm currently shooting both digital and 35mm. Digital-wise, I'm using a
10D
SLR, mainly with prime lenses, and tend to use mostly aperture-priority or
full manual, using partial metering to expose for the highlights, as
though
I was shooting slides. For 35mm, I'm using a Voigtlander Bessa-R
rangefinder
with either Velvia or B&W print film, and in both media types, I find the
"manual" method of shooting suits my style.

Of late, I've become curious about medium format equipment, and I think it
would be fun to experiment, but I have absolutely no clue about equipment.
There's plenty of stuff for 35mm lens and camera systems on the 'net, but
MF stuff seems to be a bit rarer.

So if I was to look at renting some medium format equipment and shooting a
few slides, given my background, what sort of thing would be a good
starting
point? Intuitively, I'm thinking I want to be looking at either a MF
rangefinder or SLR, on the basis that those types of cameras would be most
familliar, but am willing to consider alternatives. Any ideas?

Other than the Pentax 67, you'll find the MF SLRs _quite_ different beasts
to work with than 35mm and digital SLRs. And even the Pentax is large enough
that you may find it weird. If you want to try an MF SLR, I'd recommend
buying, not renting, on the grounds that it'll take time to get used to an
MF SLR.

For renting, I'd think the Mamiya 7 would make sense, since it should be
similar to the Bessa. The 80mm lens is a tad wider than a 50mm lens (it's
more like a 42mm lens), but it's a sharp lens.

One problem with MF rangefinders, though, is that there aren't a lot of
options that work well for portraits: lenses don't focus close enough
(Mamiya 7), or don't exist at all. Also, close ups are difficult. For
portraits and closeups, MF SLRs are, of course, wonderful.

One nasty problem with MF is getting your images digitized. MF scanners are
expensive. But even 645 with the Nikon 9000 will knock your socks off
relative to 35mm or the 10D, even at A4, if you are at all fussy about
detail.

David J. Littleboy
Tokyo, Japan

In article ,
David J. Littleboy wrote:

For renting, I'd think the Mamiya 7 would make sense, since it should be
similar to the Bessa. The 80mm lens is a tad wider than a 50mm lens (it's
more like a 42mm lens), but it's a sharp lens.

My web searches thus far have suggested that that Mamiya is worth a look, so
it's useful to see a couple of posts that seem to confirm this.

What are they like to carry on mountain hikes? I've gone on fairly long
treks with a 10D and 3 lenses, and wouldn't fancy carrying much more weight
than that.

One problem with MF rangefinders, though, is that there aren't a lot of
options that work well for portraits: lenses don't focus close enough
(Mamiya 7), or don't exist at all. Also, close ups are difficult. For
portraits and closeups, MF SLRs are, of course, wonderful.

My main use would be for landscape stuff - my 10D and the 50mm f/1.4 and
100mm f/2.8 lenses give me pretty much everything I want for potraits, but
the extra detail offered by MF for wide-angle landscape shots is quite
attractive. If anything, the 80mm lens you mentioned would be a bit long for
my likeing. I'm mostly using a 35mm lens on my Bessa, and like the angle of
view that gives me.

One nasty problem with MF is getting your images digitized.

This has occured to me. I'm thinking that if I stick to slides, then if I
just want to look at the photos, I can use a loupe or project them. For
prints up to A4, I've found that I ncan get acceptable results from 35mm and
Velvia by using the 10D and a macro lens to photograph the slide and then
tweaking it in Photoshop. If you haven't tried this, I can say it works
better than you might expect, and produces decent results up to A4, although
obviously it'll be a long way from getting the extra detail from a 6*6 piece
of Velvia for a large print.

Scanning technology will also improve over time, of course, and it's not
like the slides will be going anywhere in the meantime. In p[articular,
flatbed scanners are improving dramatically, and who knows what they will be
capable of in a few years?

Thanks for the input

"David J. Littleboy" wrote in message
...

Other than the Pentax 67, you'll find the MF SLRs _quite_ different beasts
to work with than 35mm and digital SLRs. And even the Pentax is large
enough
that you may find it weird. If you want to try an MF SLR, I'd recommend
buying, not renting, on the grounds that it'll take time to get used to an
MF SLR.

I'm trying this route myself. I've purchased a Pentax 645 with 75mm and
135mm lenses. So around midweek, I'll get to see a) what condition the
stuff is in and b) if my poor aging eyes will let me focus accurately
enough to make use of it.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

WARNING!!! looking at projected medium format slides may be hazardous to
your tolerance of lesser quality images from 35mm and digital formats! ;-)

renting is a good idea since ergonomics are usually more important to
most users than minor differences between lens quality etc., see list of
rental sources by state/phone at http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/rental.html

see http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/index.html and mf/cameras.html for camera
links and related buying articles (at top of mf/index.html)

see Danny Gonzalez's pro's hands-on camera reviews and pros/cons notes
at http://medfmt.8k.com/mf/gindex.html

see mf/features.html for a chart of what camera types best match sundry
types of shooting situations (portraits..)....

see mf/system.html for systems oriented approach to camera system buys

see mf/available.html for lenses available by format and cost/brand (B&H)

see mf/value.html for best buys on MF gear and mf/budget.html for budget
MF options under $1,000 US$

see http://medfmt.8k.com/bronslideprojp.html for MF slide projector
options - there are lots of older used MF slide projectors for 645 and 6x6
slides which are available at often very low cost; 6x7cm and larger
options are more $$ or older/bulkier in budget range ;-)

if you are looking at current cameras, the B&H catalog for pro
photographers which covers MF and LF gear is a great resource (may be free
if you sound like a likely buyer ;-), call or email B&H etc.); lists
cameras, lenses, accessories and all that ;-)

used gear prices are now at historic lows in real dollar terms for many MF
SLRs etc.; you can probably try out a basic camera kit, and if you don't
like it, sell it on ebay with little loss in $$ (versus weeks of renting
costs anyway ;-)

keep in mind that you may end up with multiple MF kits over time, many of
us do - a TLR is handy for some types of situations, an SLR for closeups
or telephotos and so on, RF for fast or dim light work, mini-view MF for
architecture, and so on. MF lets you justify buying all these toys because
each is a bit different or useful in creating particular kinds of images
;-)

hope this helps

bobm


--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

On Mon, 10 May 2004 12:17:05 -0400, "Michael Benveniste"
wrote:

I'm trying this route myself. I've purchased a Pentax 645 with 75mm and
135mm lenses. So around midweek, I'll get to see a) what condition the
stuff is in and b) if my poor aging eyes will let me focus accurately
enough to make use of it.

Follow up. Everything looks to be in good shape. Had a bit of a
scare when I first looked through the finder, but someone had
twisted the diopter adjustment almost off the scale. After
recentering, things seem to snap in and out of focus just fine.

The sacrificial roll of $1.49 NPC has been loaded, and I'm
about to blast away. Ah, the joy of a new toy.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 12:17:05 -0400, "Michael Benveniste"
wrote:

I'm trying this route myself. I've purchased a Pentax 645 with 75mm and
135mm lenses. So around midweek, I'll get to see a) what condition the
stuff is in and b) if my poor aging eyes will let me focus accurately
enough to make use of it.

Follow up. Everything looks to be in good shape. Had a bit of a
scare when I first looked through the finder, but someone had
twisted the diopter adjustment almost off the scale. After
recentering, things seem to snap in and out of focus just fine.

The sacrificial roll of $1.49 NPC has been loaded, and I'm
about to blast away. Ah, the joy of a new toy.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $419. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

In article ,
Bob Monaghan wrote:

WARNING!!! looking at projected medium format slides may be hazardous to
your tolerance of lesser quality images from 35mm and digital formats! ;-)

Lots of useful links there, thanks muchly!

keep in mind that you may end up with multiple MF kits over time, many of
us do - a TLR is handy for some types of situations, an SLR for closeups
or telephotos and so on, RF for fast or dim light work, mini-view MF for
architecture, and so on. MF lets you justify buying all these toys because
each is a bit different or useful in creating particular kinds of images
;-)

Uh-oh, not too sure my wife will be impressed by that. ;-)

You know, you can try out MF very cheaply by getting yourself a nice vintage
folder or TLR. And it doesn't have to be an expensive Super Ikonta or
Rolleiflex. I love folders, myself, simply because they are so
uncomplicated. Little can go wrong with these. They are basically just a
support for the roll film and a lens/shutter combination. There are zero
electronics, and other than the shutter and lens, virtually zero mechanicals
as well.

I like Polaroid pack film cameras too. Those are medium format too, and even
almost large format.

My picks for inexpensive folders would be Agfa Isolette or any of the 6x9 or
6x6 Zeiss-Ikon Nettars. The lesser, mid-level lenses like Apotars on the
Agfas and Novars in the Zeiss cameras are plenty good when used to best
advantage (stopped down, as usual, and with a hood). You might also be
surprised at how good a very cheap plastic Holga or Woca camera can be, and
how much fun it is to experiment with one.