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#31
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Do you feel Lucky?
"Richard Knoppow" schrieb:
"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a anti-halation coating (AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp appearance of the negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a glaring piece of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame. Halation was much worse for plates than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now without the coating. Cost, cost, cost. I suspect that Lucky SHD may in fact be a movie-stock derived film. In cinema production oder cinema copy the lighting situation is controlled, there is no such thing as an unintended flare or glare - and thus less problem with a weak AHU, which is a costly thing if done properly. Orwo UN54 responds in a similar fashion - but not as bad as the Lucky. Jens´ pictures of the railway station demonstrate the negative effects quite nicely. Now take in account that the SHD100 was sold by the european importer as an affordable alternative for APX, FP4 and PlusX and aimed at beginners - imagine what degree of frustration has come with using this material. :-/ Also, the back coating is also used for countering the curling tendency of the emulsion the anti-halation dye is usually included in this coating. If there is no back coating at all I suspect the film will curl very badly. A behaviour for which the Lucky is well-known. Gruss, Roman -- "An MDCCCXII/Mémorable par la campagne contre les Russes/ Sous le préfectura de Jules Doazan." "Vu et approuvé par nous commandant russe de la ville de Coblentz/ le 1er janvier 1814." |
#32
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Do you feel Lucky?
Cost, cost, cost.
How do they make the film so cheap? Easy: o Leave out half the manufacturing steps; o Save on personnel costs and fire that pesky QC department; o Save even more and fire the cleaning crew, so what's a bit of dust here and there? o And since it's a workers' paradise, you don't need to pay the workers squat - there's no money in paradise and dialectical materialism is the only motivation a man needs to do good work. * * * Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father. -- Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters http://www.darkroomautomation.com/da-main.htm n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com |
#33
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Do you feel Lucky?
Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:
Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father. But the Great Yellow Father hath abandoned me. His devine child Kodachrome, no longer can be found in the holy land. The magic soup to make pictures come of it, has been lost, and there is only one temple, to the deity Doo-ain, that has it, far off in a place called Kan-Zas in the land of Mehreecah. His silvery wizard, Try-ecks, has been replaced with a subcubus, called new and improved and given the number of the beast, 400. His son Plooz-ecks, has also been replaced and anoited with the lesser number 125 befitting his station in life. Their fine grandfather, Pan-ecks has died, and so has the magician Tek of the Pan clan. He has pushed upon us a faint shadow of Verry-Chrom and his son Verry-Chrom of the Pan clan, called Tea-Macks, who is half blind and is easily blinded by bright lights and can not see in the shadows. His daemons, KodaBromide, Medalist, Panalure, and their cousins were slain, along with their mates, Deck-Tahl, and Mike-Roh-Dahl, who have been replaced by the evil droids HC-110 and D-76. What is left of his empire is being destroyed by the great evil wizzard, Lord Dig-Eat-All, who once worked for the Great Yellow Father and now seeks to take over his empire and destroy him. It is indeed a dark time in the empire and we are praying that the Chinese Empire called Pee-Are-Cee, will be able to learn from the time they were allies with the Great Yellow Father, before Lord Dig-Eat-All took over and severed their partnership. That is why we asked if anyone had used their magic film called Loo-Key, or as it seems, Lee-Key. :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM |
#34
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Do you feel Lucky?
"Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message ... "Richard Knoppow" schrieb: "Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a anti-halation coating (AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp appearance of the negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a glaring piece of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame. Halation was much worse for plates than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now without the coating. Cost, cost, cost. I suspect that Lucky SHD may in fact be a movie-stock derived film. In cinema production oder cinema copy the lighting situation is controlled, there is no such thing as an unintended flare or glare - and thus less problem with a weak AHU, which is a costly thing if done properly. Orwo UN54 responds in a similar fashion - but not as bad as the Lucky. Jens´ pictures of the railway station demonstrate the negative effects quite nicely. Now take in account that the SHD100 was sold by the european importer as an affordable alternative for APX, FP4 and PlusX and aimed at beginners - imagine what degree of frustration has come with using this material. :-/ Also, the back coating is also used for countering the curling tendency of the emulsion the anti-halation dye is usually included in this coating. If there is no back coating at all I suspect the film will curl very badly. A behaviour for which the Lucky is well-known. Gruss, Roman The only motion picture film I am aware of that does not have an anti-halation backing is special film made for bi-packing. This arrangement is sometimes used for special effects, i.e., generating a traveling mask for special effects using a blue screen backing. Such film was also available in the distant past for two-color color processes. About the only other film I know of without such a backing is the late, lamented Kodak High-Speed Infrared film. The IR film shows halation effects and was sometimes used because of that. I can only believe that the Lucky film is without AH backing because they don't know how to apply it. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA |
#35
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Do you feel Lucky?
"Geoffrey S. Mendelson" wrote in message ... Nicholas O. Lindan wrote: Repent, ye customers of the Evil Empire and follow instead the path of the Great Yellow Father. But the Great Yellow Father hath abandoned me. His devine child Kodachrome, no longer can be found in the holy land. The magic soup to make pictures come of it, has been lost, and there is only one temple, to the deity Doo-ain, that has it, far off in a place called Kan-Zas in the land of Mehreecah. His silvery wizard, Try-ecks, has been replaced with a subcubus, called new and improved and given the number of the beast, 400. His son Plooz-ecks, has also been replaced and anoited with the lesser number 125 befitting his station in life. Their fine grandfather, Pan-ecks has died, and so has the magician Tek of the Pan clan. He has pushed upon us a faint shadow of Verry-Chrom and his son Verry-Chrom of the Pan clan, called Tea-Macks, who is half blind and is easily blinded by bright lights and can not see in the shadows. His daemons, KodaBromide, Medalist, Panalure, and their cousins were slain, along with their mates, Deck-Tahl, and Mike-Roh-Dahl, who have been replaced by the evil droids HC-110 and D-76. What is left of his empire is being destroyed by the great evil wizzard, Lord Dig-Eat-All, who once worked for the Great Yellow Father and now seeks to take over his empire and destroy him. It is indeed a dark time in the empire and we are praying that the Chinese Empire called Pee-Are-Cee, will be able to learn from the time they were allies with the Great Yellow Father, before Lord Dig-Eat-All took over and severed their partnership. That is why we asked if anyone had used their magic film called Loo-Key, or as it seems, Lee-Key. :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM The technology of making photographic materials was developed and perfected a very high degree at Kodak and we have simply taken it for granted. Even AGFA and Ilford were never quite up to Kodak's level although Fuji probably is. Making _modern_ emulsions is not a trivail task, the Chinese are giving it a go but are at least a century behind the times. I wish them well but my experiencew with Chinese manufactured goods is not such as to encourage me to buy more. Its too bad about Kodak but they are at least still in there pitching where AGFA just gave it up completely. Kodachrome is an obsolete product that just happens to look better than a lot of the modern stuff and has a very long dark storage lifetime. Processing it is a nightmare. Kodak has been trying to discontinue it ever since they introduced Ektachrome c.1948. They did discontinue Kodachrome in sheet film sizes at that time much to the consternation of the commercial photographers who depended on it. Early Ektachrome was much inferior to Kodachrome but I think Kodak may have been loosing money on processing it. -- -- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles WB6KBL |
#36
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Do you feel Lucky?
Roman J. Rohleder wrote:
"Richard Knoppow" schrieb: "Roman J. Rohleder" wrote in message Worse is the photographic result - the lack of a anti-halation coating (AHU) contributes to halos and an overall unsharp appearance of the negativ under certain lighting conditions - like with a glaring piece of chrome or metal or the sun within the frame. Halation was much worse for plates than film but its amazing that anyone would make film now without the coating. Cost, cost, cost. Quality, quality, quality. |
#37
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Do you feel Lucky?
Richard Knoppow wrote:
Oh well, I was making a joke, which obviously fell flat. :-( The technology of making photographic materials was developed and perfected a very high degree at Kodak and we have simply taken it for granted. Even AGFA and Ilford were never quite up to Kodak's level although Fuji probably is. That of course, has varied over time. Ilford has made some good films, and IMHO their current incarnation of Pan-F much better than the Kodak, oh yeh, they don't have one. However if you remember IlfoChrome film from the 1980's, you can do nothing but agree with Richard. Agfa did some really good things over the years, such as Rodinal, which is still a good developer, well over 100 years after being "invented". They also were able to break the "speed barrier" of film, being stuck at what is now ISO 80, but something we call the Second World War, put an end to that. They also had some monumental failures, remember "Rapid" cameras? They took 35mm film in a two way cassette. You put it in the camera and the film went from the new cassette to the old one, which had to be moved to the take-up position. I always liked their monochrome print paper, but never really thought much of their film. Making _modern_ emulsions is not a trivail task, the Chinese are giving it a go but are at least a century behind the times. I wish them well but my experiencew with Chinese manufactured goods is not such as to encourage me to buy more. Eastern European companies seem to have gotten the 1920 vintage film manufacturing process pretty much, and to be honest, I would love to have a good supply of KB14 whether it says Adox, Efke, or Orwo on it. Its too bad about Kodak but they are at least still in there pitching where AGFA just gave it up completely. Yes, they still make some films, which is more than Agfa and Konica do, whose films I have used over the years. Ektar is a ray of hope for me that there is some film capturing the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's not OLED's. Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM |
#38
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Do you feel Lucky?
In article
, Peter wrote: I visited Photokina, yesterday. I wandered all over the show and noticed a booth that Lucky had. They were selling the 100 speed B&W film. I asked their representative about the anti-halation backing. He said "huh". After discussing it a while, he admitted that he didn't know what that is. Perhaps they are not training the folks they send to the show, but it is also consistent with the discussion that there is none. Sales people seldom know this kind of stuff. The company i work for use to send me to Photo Plus, I was the technical sales rep then. I've since left and returned as simply the technical support department and mainly do repairs and product management- I don't do shows. They guys they actually send as sales people only look for $$$ they seldom have technical skills. -- Reality is a picture perfected and never looking back. |
#40
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Do you feel Lucky?
On 9/25/2008 9:49 PM Geoffrey S. Mendelson spake thus:
wrote: Sales people seldom know this kind of stuff. The company i work for use to send me to Photo Plus, I was the technical sales rep then. I've since left and returned as simply the technical support department and mainly do repairs and product management- I don't do shows. They guys they actually send as sales people only look for $$$ they seldom have technical skills. I've never been to a professional photo show, but companies at show I've been to are judged by the quality and price of their give away items and the size and amount shown of the "girls" handing out things. If can look at their face long enough to have a conversation with them, you find out they are locals hired for the shows. :-) The pretty ones do booths, the less pretty ones do registration and brocures and the plain ones sell food. I remember from the shows I've been to (Comdex in Las Vegas a long time ago) that the girls were known as "booth bunnies". -- Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral. - Paulo Freire |
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