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Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical



 
 
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  #51  
Old January 30th 13, 06:06 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 10:57 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:45 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:49:52 -0900,
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:


Because bodies like the D800 and D4 can shoot 9 shot
brackets, and in High Speed Continous mode the camera
can be set to stop at 9 shots, it is easy to actually
bracket at +/- 4 EV with those cameras. And that is a
greater spread than the D600 can get shooting three
shots with 3 EV steps.

I don't think the D800 shoots faster than the D600... and I don't think the D4
is 3 times faster than the D600... you're a little optimistic!

Who said anything at all about faster?

Was the reference to using "High Speed Continuous" a
cause of confusion? That merely provides the fastest
rate that the camera will shoot, whatever it happens to
be. (The fastest rate possible is better in order to avoid
any change is the scene during the time a set of exposures is
taken.)

The camera can be configured for the maximum number of
shots that will be taken with a single press of the
shutter button in a continuous mode. Hence, if the
bracketing is set to a specific number of shots,
regardless of the size of the step per shot, and the
camera is in a Continuous mode with a maximum number of
exposures that equals the number set in backeting... a
full bracketed set is automatically made with a single
press of the shutter release button.

The point made was that the D4 and D800 can be set to
shoot 9 shots with each 1 EV apart. That provides an
automatic bracketed range of +4 EV to -4 EV. That
cannot be done with the D600. It can be set to 3 shots
at most, and with each at most 3 EV apart, providing
only +3 EV to -3 EV.


Uhm! 3 x 3 =9, the last time I looked at a math table.


Uhm, you need more coffee and less of whatever it is you are doing.

Shot Count: 1 2 3
fstops : -3 0 +3

Three shots is two intervals from the first to the last.

For the D4 and similar models,

Shot Count: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
f/stops : -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4


You have just proved my original point. Three shots are
adequate fpr HDR, if you have at least 2EV for each stop.
Go shoot some HDR and look at the results. Under most
circumstances you do not need more than a 4 EV spread.


You just proved you are still running around in circles
trying to find something that you can talk about with
some sembalance of sanity...

Who cares if you think 3 shots are adeqate, or if you
think it takes 4, or only 2. That was never the point,
and that is never going to be the point.

And what has that got to do with your silly 3*3=9 bit of
idiocy? Did your math book fail you again?

--
Floyd L. Davidson
http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #52  
Old January 30th 13, 06:11 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 11:01 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:47 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 8:52 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:49:52 -0900,
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:


Because bodies like the D800 and D4 can shoot 9 shot
brackets, and in High Speed Continous mode the camera
can be set to stop at 9 shots, it is easy to actually
bracket at +/- 4 EV with those cameras. And that is a
greater spread than the D600 can get shooting three
shots with 3 EV steps.

I don't think the D800 shoots faster than the D600... and I don't think the D4
is 3 times faster than the D600... you're a little optimistic!


It doesn't. Frame rate on the D600 is 5.5. The D800
frame rate is 4. (Assuming that neither has a battery
pack.)

So what? It doesn't make any difference and was not part of
the discussion.


So then why is that important to you.


You brought it up, not me.


BobF did, and I responded. You interjected, inappropriately.


No, you are the one who claimed the I said the D4 is 3 times
faster than the D600. Idiocy Peter, idiocy.

Obviously you
don't shoot HDR. Frame rate can be important i reducing
ghosting, when shooting under less than ideal conditions.


Which is why I used High Speed Continuous in the example I
gave.


And why fewer shots are better.


But not significant for the equipment being discussed.

Why are you coming up with this sort of repeated nonsense?


It appears that the "nonsense" enminates from you.


Yeah, like the 3x3=9 bit from whose math book??? :-)

The point was and still is that the D4 can get a +/- 4
EV bracket, and the D600 cannot. It might be that
shooting HDR is one use for such bracketing, but it is
not the only use and therefore your perception of how to
shoot HDR, even if it were the only way, would still not
be the point of the original discussion about
bracketing.

--
Floyd L. Davidson
http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #53  
Old January 30th 13, 06:13 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 11:06 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:53 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 8:34 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

snip


The ideal HDR spread is 4 stops.2 under one on and 2
over. As I stated above If that can be achieved with 3
images, there is less chance of ghosting due to camera
movement.

BS.

Now that was a well thought out response.

It fit your comment to a tee, and there is no point giving
your opinion any credibility at all. Even if what you said
had been accurate, it is overly specific and not valid for
a discussion of generalities.

Not everyone shoots your idea of "the ideal HDR spread".
?? "shoots?'

I make no claim to originality about HDR, when not
shooting for a "cartoon" look, that 2 ev over and 2 ev
under + 1 normal exposure, is ideal. That doesn't mean
that there are circumstances where the image would
benefit from a variance. Just a goog GENERAL rule of
thumb.

It has become increasing obvious that you do little, if any, HDR shooting.


Because I talk about how to use a camera in general,
rather than speak only to the few specifics that you
understand?

You're still missing the point. Which is understanding
the camera, not shooting your idea of HDR.


The subject was bracketing and why. Stop contorting out of you error.


You are right. I definitely enjoy using my D800. Didn't
even consider the D600. I did consider the D4, but
decided to put the difference towards some good glass.

They are different. For some things the D4 is significantly
better than a D800. For other things the D800 is significantly
better than a D4. Budget aside, choosing one or the other is
best done by matching what kind of photography you do to the
camera.


True. Unlike some here, I do not have an unlimited
budget, so in a tie based upon use, budget comes into
play.
But to quote you, "that was not part of the original discussion."


So why are you throwing it into to discussion? I could care less
how much money you can spend on cameras, or not.


Because you brought it up.


Would you stop claiming that I'm the one saying what appears in your
posts!

As usual, discussion of anything here is pointless past stating something
once and ignoring idiots. If you have something useful to say, I'll
respond. But I won't bother with more of this repeated blather.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #54  
Old January 30th 13, 06:24 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/30/2013 12:06 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 10:57 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:45 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:49:52 -0900,
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:


Because bodies like the D800 and D4 can shoot 9 shot
brackets, and in High Speed Continous mode the camera
can be set to stop at 9 shots, it is easy to actually
bracket at +/- 4 EV with those cameras. And that is a
greater spread than the D600 can get shooting three
shots with 3 EV steps.

I don't think the D800 shoots faster than the D600... and I don't think the D4
is 3 times faster than the D600... you're a little optimistic!

Who said anything at all about faster?

Was the reference to using "High Speed Continuous" a
cause of confusion? That merely provides the fastest
rate that the camera will shoot, whatever it happens to
be. (The fastest rate possible is better in order to avoid
any change is the scene during the time a set of exposures is
taken.)

The camera can be configured for the maximum number of
shots that will be taken with a single press of the
shutter button in a continuous mode. Hence, if the
bracketing is set to a specific number of shots,
regardless of the size of the step per shot, and the
camera is in a Continuous mode with a maximum number of
exposures that equals the number set in backeting... a
full bracketed set is automatically made with a single
press of the shutter release button.

The point made was that the D4 and D800 can be set to
shoot 9 shots with each 1 EV apart. That provides an
automatic bracketed range of +4 EV to -4 EV. That
cannot be done with the D600. It can be set to 3 shots
at most, and with each at most 3 EV apart, providing
only +3 EV to -3 EV.


Uhm! 3 x 3 =9, the last time I looked at a math table.

Uhm, you need more coffee and less of whatever it is you are doing.

Shot Count: 1 2 3
fstops : -3 0 +3

Three shots is two intervals from the first to the last.

For the D4 and similar models,

Shot Count: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
f/stops : -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4


You have just proved my original point. Three shots are
adequate fpr HDR, if you have at least 2EV for each stop.
Go shoot some HDR and look at the results. Under most
circumstances you do not need more than a 4 EV spread.


You just proved you are still running around in circles
trying to find something that you can talk about with
some sembalance of sanity...

Who cares if you think 3 shots are adeqate, or if you
think it takes 4, or only 2. That was never the point,
and that is never going to be the point.

And what has that got to do with your silly 3*3=9 bit of
idiocy? Did your math book fail you again?


So what is 3x3, if not 9?

--
PeterN
  #55  
Old January 30th 13, 06:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/30/2013 12:11 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 11:01 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:47 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 8:52 PM, wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:49:52 -0900,
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:


Because bodies like the D800 and D4 can shoot 9 shot
brackets, and in High Speed Continous mode the camera
can be set to stop at 9 shots, it is easy to actually
bracket at +/- 4 EV with those cameras. And that is a
greater spread than the D600 can get shooting three
shots with 3 EV steps.

I don't think the D800 shoots faster than the D600... and I don't think the D4
is 3 times faster than the D600... you're a little optimistic!


It doesn't. Frame rate on the D600 is 5.5. The D800
frame rate is 4. (Assuming that neither has a battery
pack.)

So what? It doesn't make any difference and was not part of
the discussion.


So then why is that important to you.

You brought it up, not me.


BobF did, and I responded. You interjected, inappropriately.


No, you are the one who claimed the I said the D4 is 3 times
faster than the D600. Idiocy Peter, idiocy.


Just show the post in which I made such a claim.



Obviously you
don't shoot HDR. Frame rate can be important i reducing
ghosting, when shooting under less than ideal conditions.

Which is why I used High Speed Continuous in the example I
gave.


And why fewer shots are better.


But not significant for the equipment being discussed.

OIC!

Why are you coming up with this sort of repeated nonsense?


It appears that the "nonsense" enminates from you.


Yeah, like the 3x3=9 bit from whose math book??? :-)

The point was and still is that the D4 can get a +/- 4
EV bracket, and the D600 cannot. It might be that
shooting HDR is one use for such bracketing, but it is
not the only use and therefore your perception of how to
shoot HDR, even if it were the only way, would still not
be the point of the original discussion about
bracketing.



Fallacious reasoning, a straw man argument.



--
PeterN
  #56  
Old January 30th 13, 06:32 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
PeterN[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 703
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On 1/30/2013 12:13 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/30/2013 11:06 AM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 9:53 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
PeterN wrote:
On 1/29/2013 8:34 PM, Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

snip


The ideal HDR spread is 4 stops.2 under one on and 2
over. As I stated above If that can be achieved with 3
images, there is less chance of ghosting due to camera
movement.

BS.

Now that was a well thought out response.

It fit your comment to a tee, and there is no point giving
your opinion any credibility at all. Even if what you said
had been accurate, it is overly specific and not valid for
a discussion of generalities.

Not everyone shoots your idea of "the ideal HDR spread".
?? "shoots?'

I make no claim to originality about HDR, when not
shooting for a "cartoon" look, that 2 ev over and 2 ev
under + 1 normal exposure, is ideal. That doesn't mean
that there are circumstances where the image would
benefit from a variance. Just a goog GENERAL rule of
thumb.

It has become increasing obvious that you do little, if any, HDR shooting.

Because I talk about how to use a camera in general,
rather than speak only to the few specifics that you
understand?

You're still missing the point. Which is understanding
the camera, not shooting your idea of HDR.


The subject was bracketing and why. Stop contorting out of you error.


You are right. I definitely enjoy using my D800. Didn't
even consider the D600. I did consider the D4, but
decided to put the difference towards some good glass.

They are different. For some things the D4 is significantly
better than a D800. For other things the D800 is significantly
better than a D4. Budget aside, choosing one or the other is
best done by matching what kind of photography you do to the
camera.


True. Unlike some here, I do not have an unlimited
budget, so in a tie based upon use, budget comes into
play.
But to quote you, "that was not part of the original discussion."

So why are you throwing it into to discussion? I could care less
how much money you can spend on cameras, or not.


Because you brought it up.


Would you stop claiming that I'm the one saying what appears in your
posts!

As usual, discussion of anything here is pointless past stating something
once and ignoring idiots.


Yep! I should ignore you.

If you have something useful to say, I'll
respond. But I won't bother with more of this repeated blather.

Good. EOD

--
PeterN
  #57  
Old January 31st 13, 02:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 210
Default Choosing a system, the practical and the philosophical

On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 17:45:51 -0900, (Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

wrote:
On Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:49:52 -0900,
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:


Because bodies like the D800 and D4 can shoot 9 shot
brackets, and in High Speed Continous mode the camera
can be set to stop at 9 shots, it is easy to actually
bracket at +/- 4 EV with those cameras. And that is a
greater spread than the D600 can get shooting three
shots with 3 EV steps.


I don't think the D800 shoots faster than the D600... and I don't think the D4
is 3 times faster than the D600... you're a little optimistic!


Who said anything at all about faster?

Was the reference to using "High Speed Continuous" a
cause of confusion? That merely provides the fastest
rate that the camera will shoot, whatever it happens to
be. (The fastest rate possible is better in order to avoid
any change is the scene during the time a set of exposures is
taken.)

The camera can be configured for the maximum number of
shots that will be taken with a single press of the
shutter button in a continuous mode. Hence, if the
bracketing is set to a specific number of shots,
regardless of the size of the step per shot, and the
camera is in a Continuous mode with a maximum number of
exposures that equals the number set in backeting... a
full bracketed set is automatically made with a single
press of the shutter release button.

The point made was that the D4 and D800 can be set to
shoot 9 shots with each 1 EV apart. That provides an
automatic bracketed range of +4 EV to -4 EV. That
cannot be done with the D600. It can be set to 3 shots
at most, and with each at most 3 EV apart, providing
only +3 EV to -3 EV.

Speed has nothing at all to do with that discussion.


OK I got you, I replied too fast! The end range is indeed less.

 




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