Nikon D80 Custom tone curves

From personal experience and also what I've read, I would have to say
that the percentage of 'on' exposures in the Nikon D80 is crappy. I
bought mine as it was being touted as a backup to the D200. It may
have the same image sensor, but functionally it's got a long way to
go. My D70 was far better at nailing exposures, and my D200 is a
delight - 100 percent accurate exposures. My sense is that in this
high technology age, bad exposures - and we are talking blown
highlights, using Nikon Matrix Metering - this should be a thing of
the past.

Nikon, if you are listening (and I KNOW you are) please give us a D80
firmware upgrade that fixes the crappy expsoure problem.

But on this subject, I have also heard that the D80 actaully exposes
correctly and that the fault lies in the tone curve. I was told that
if used "nikon software" I could create my own. I currently have
Capture NX for my Nikon software. I am wondering - are there any D80
users out there who have successfully overcome this exposure problem
using custom tone curves? Is there are a tutorial on how to create
them? Thanks much for any help. And also, if anyone has any custom
curves they can send, it would be helpful.

And Nikon - please listen to your users. Canon is so far ahead of
you, you can't afford to alienate little people like me - so fix the
damn problem!!!!

"spydersweb34" wrote in message
ups.com...
From personal experience and also what I've read, I would have to say
that the percentage of 'on' exposures in the Nikon D80 is crappy. I
bought mine as it was being touted as a backup to the D200. It may
have the same image sensor, but functionally it's got a long way to
go. My D70 was far better at nailing exposures, and my D200 is a
delight - 100 percent accurate exposures. My sense is that in this
high technology age, bad exposures - and we are talking blown
highlights, using Nikon Matrix Metering - this should be a thing of
the past.

Nikon, if you are listening (and I KNOW you are) please give us a D80
firmware upgrade that fixes the crappy expsoure problem.

But on this subject, I have also heard that the D80 actaully exposes
correctly and that the fault lies in the tone curve. I was told that
if used "nikon software" I could create my own. I currently have
Capture NX for my Nikon software. I am wondering - are there any D80
users out there who have successfully overcome this exposure problem
using custom tone curves? Is there are a tutorial on how to create
them? Thanks much for any help. And also, if anyone has any custom
curves they can send, it would be helpful.

And Nikon - please listen to your users. Canon is so far ahead of
you, you can't afford to alienate little people like me - so fix the
damn problem!!!!

This appears to be basically the same post regarding D80 tone curves that
you asked on 11/7/2007 in rec.photo.digital NG. My response is there for
your review.

Steve Smith wrote:
"Boskey" wrote in message
This appears to be basically the same post regarding D80 tone
curves that you asked on 11/7/2007 in rec.photo.digital NG. My
response is there for your review.
Would you mind please sharing the answer with the rest of us.. I
can't seem to get the posts from that dat on that group.

Did you check the DejaNews archive? Although it has been purchased by Google
and their web interface to Usenet stinks I have to admit that Google does
still maintain the archive and archive searches do work reasonably well.

jue

"Steve Smith" wrote in message
...
i found the info.. What Nikon software do you need to upload curves?
steve

From my previous response to OP:
"I have read in other NG's that this is common in the D80 matrix meter. On
the Nikonian website they often refer to Thom Hogan's take on the subject.
His review is here, http://www.bythom.com/d80review.htm He did have some
curves included with his D200 eBook, perhaps he has some available in his
D80 eBook. I have tried curves on my D200 from here,
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/ They were okay, but I later did some
modifications. You will need Nikon software to load the curves into your
camera and to modify them to suit your own tastes. Camera Control Pro is
needed. It was originally part of Nikon Capture, but I don't think Capture
supports the D80."

Additional information can be found:
http://www.nikonians.org/cgi-bin/dcf...nf=DCConfI D9
http://www.jtgraphics.net/all_digital.htm
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/c...ne_curves.html
http://www.rawmagick.com/

"spydersweb34" wrote in message
ups.com...
From personal experience and also what I've read, I would have to
say
that the percentage of 'on' exposures in the Nikon D80 is crappy.
I
bought mine as it was being touted as a backup to the D200. It may
have the same image sensor, but functionally it's got a long way to
go. My D70 was far better at nailing exposures, and my D200 is a
delight - 100 percent accurate exposures. My sense is that in this
high technology age, bad exposures - and we are talking blown
highlights, using Nikon Matrix Metering - this should be a thing of
the past.

Nikon, if you are listening (and I KNOW you are) please give us a
D80
firmware upgrade that fixes the crappy expsoure problem.

But on this subject, I have also heard that the D80 actaully exposes
correctly and that the fault lies in the tone curve. I was told
that
if used "nikon software" I could create my own. I currently have
Capture NX for my Nikon software. I am wondering - are there any
D80
users out there who have successfully overcome this exposure problem
using custom tone curves? Is there are a tutorial on how to create
them? Thanks much for any help. And also, if anyone has any
custom
curves they can send, it would be helpful.

And Nikon - please listen to your users. Canon is so far ahead of
you, you can't afford to alienate little people like me - so fix the
damn problem!!!!

In my ignorance I have 2 Nikon D80's and, in nearly every case, my
exposures
are "spot on". My histograms are about as good as I might want.

Frank Arthur wrote:
"spydersweb34" wrote in message
ups.com...
From personal experience and also what I've read, I would have to
say
that the percentage of 'on' exposures in the Nikon D80 is crappy.
I
bought mine as it was being touted as a backup to the D200. It may
have the same image sensor, but functionally it's got a long way to
go. My D70 was far better at nailing exposures, and my D200 is a
delight - 100 percent accurate exposures. My sense is that in this
high technology age, bad exposures - and we are talking blown
highlights, using Nikon Matrix Metering - this should be a thing of
the past.

Nikon, if you are listening (and I KNOW you are) please give us a
D80
firmware upgrade that fixes the crappy expsoure problem.

But on this subject, I have also heard that the D80 actaully exposes
correctly and that the fault lies in the tone curve. I was told
that
if used "nikon software" I could create my own. I currently have
Capture NX for my Nikon software. I am wondering - are there any
D80
users out there who have successfully overcome this exposure problem
using custom tone curves? Is there are a tutorial on how to create
them? Thanks much for any help. And also, if anyone has any
custom
curves they can send, it would be helpful.

And Nikon - please listen to your users. Canon is so far ahead of
you, you can't afford to alienate little people like me - so fix the
damn problem!!!!

In my ignorance I have 2 Nikon D80's and, in nearly every case, my
exposures
are "spot on". My histograms are about as good as I might want.


I've got a D70; if it's left in 'auto' it tends to overexpose somewhat.
Easily correctable, though correction is unnecessary if you take it to a
more manual setting.

Aperture priority shoots bang on..


P.

"Frank Arthur" wrote:
"spydersweb34" wrote in message
oups.com...

Nikon, if you are listening (and I KNOW you are) please give us a D80
firmware upgrade that fixes the crappy expsoure problem.

But on this subject, I have also heard that the D80 actaully exposes
correctly and that the fault lies in the tone curve. I was told that
if used "nikon software" I could create my own. I currently have
Capture NX for my Nikon software. I am wondering - are there any D80
users out there who have successfully overcome this exposure problem
using custom tone curves? Is there are a tutorial on how to create
them? Thanks much for any help. And also, if anyone has any custom
curves they can send, it would be helpful.

And Nikon - please listen to your users. Canon is so far ahead of
you, you can't afford to alienate little people like me - so fix the
damn problem!!!!

In my ignorance I have 2 Nikon D80's and, in nearly every case, my exposures
are "spot on". My histograms are about as good as I might want.

You are probably judging exposure correctly though!
That, of course, helps greatly...

Using a histogram or the blink on over exposure to
determine "correct" exposure, and then shooting RAW and
manipulating each image (particularly exposure, gamma
value and linearity) during conversion from RAW to an
image format makes the discussion of "tone curves" a bit
pointless.

But for those who do not want to spend time post
processing images on an individual basis, finding a
"tone curve" that most closely matches their needs is a
very useful objective. The problem is that it is often
described a an "exposure" problem, and in reality it is
not. It's a gamma curve problem that is part of post
processing (whether done in the camera or manually
afterwards).

Whatever, I've recently seen several different people in
a variety of forums bring this up in regard to the Nikon
D80. One of the more interesting discussions was on the
UFRAW discussion group on sourceforge.net, where
maintainer Udi Fuchs discussed it with a couple of
fairly well informed users. One result was someone
posted a very interesting URL:

http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/

In particular, this article:

http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/c...ne_curves.html

I did get a good laugh out of something on page two, where
it discusses a list of "misconceptions". The number 9 item
discussion starts like this:

Misconception 9: I don't need custom tone curves
becaue I like to post-process every image.

Response: You are a sado-masochistic, self-flagellant
individual with highly developed computer skills.
...

Heh heh, what can we say... ;-)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

Not so:
http://www.toneupstudio.com/

After seeing your response, I went ahead and purchased this program. I will
give it a run and see how it compares to Nikon Camera Control Pro.

To Floyd Davidson

this is separate from the tone curve question, but I do see the merits
of your comments.

Believe it or not, I have been a photographer for over 40 years. My
first camera was a 4X5. I KNOW how to judge exposure. As to looking
at blinks and histograms, you can use an ancient non-auto Nikkor and
fumble around until you get the right exposure. I never had to deal
with Nikon Matrix Metering overexposure on any other Nikon DLSRs to
the degree I've had to do on the D80. My point is, I should be able
to get a REASONABLE approximation of
the exposure from using the "on' Matrix Metered setting. with the D80
If I am shooting the same subject and they move a little, the exposure
can fluctuate wildly. this is not right, because it forces you to
look at the blink, perhaps missing an important shot. that's my beef
and I am sticking to it!!

I will attempt to start shooting RAW more, as I have been working
strictly with jpegs and don't like the hassle and time constraints of
RAW.

Merci

Thomas

spydersweb34 wrote:
To Floyd Davidson

this is separate from the tone curve question, but I do see the merits
of your comments.

Believe it or not, I have been a photographer for over 40 years. My
first camera was a 4X5. I KNOW how to judge exposure.

If your experience is with film, you'll almost certainly
get it wrong at first with digital. Different beast!

But if you shoot JPEG, you'll most likely be sticking
with the same concepts used with film, and some of the
distinctions can be annoying.

As to looking
at blinks and histograms, you can use an ancient non-auto Nikkor and
fumble around until you get the right exposure. I never had to deal
with Nikon Matrix Metering overexposure on any other Nikon DLSRs to
the degree I've had to do on the D80. My point is, I should be able
to get a REASONABLE approximation of
the exposure from using the "on' Matrix Metered setting. with the D80
If I am shooting the same subject and they move a little, the exposure
can fluctuate wildly. this is not right, because it forces you to
look at the blink, perhaps missing an important shot. that's my beef
and I am sticking to it!!

I wouldn't say you are wrong! I'm certainly seeing more
people complaining about it with the D80 than with other
Nikon models. And, near as I can tell, all of those
complaining are in much the same boat you are. They
shoot JPEG, and simply want a metering system the gives
them the desired result without having to shoot RAW.

I will attempt to start shooting RAW more, as I have been working
strictly with jpegs and don't like the hassle and time constraints of
RAW.

I'm sort of on the other end of the stick. I shoot RAW
all the time, and don't particularly trust *any*
metering system. I typically shoot in Manual Exposure
mode, and determine the settings by looking at the blink
on exposure LCD display. It is then my responsibility,
not the camera's, to notice if/when the lighting changes
from one shot to the next.

The problem that I have with metering systems is that
they change too much when the *subject* changes, as
opposed to when the lighting changes. That is inherent
in a reflected light metering system, but of course
matrix metering is intended to put a little "judgement"
into what the meter says. It just isn't enough...

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)