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#51
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote: In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote: On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said: In article , nap wrote: In article , PeterN wrote: [ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher shutter speed, than my FF. [ ... ] 1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec. I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS... I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for Ch. The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps. If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will have to buy a D4S or D5. There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size. Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the D800 is slower than the CF interface. Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the medium which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The 4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big issue in a studio, or for landscapes. There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810 while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer just chokes on those fat NEF files. The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame rate for you? If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right position. Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved, incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking. I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds. I found that where the target is passing through a practical capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event for example a 5 to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single frame, or perhaps two to work on. https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a slow climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill. https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars. Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters? Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on the planes and cares do not change. However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change quite often. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg I like the first and fourth, best. I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera. If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to a different level. Bird lovers should not watch. https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0 The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that what they publish: yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions.... I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris, Osborne and perhaps Farage. You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/...assination%20S cene%20%5BThe%20Salton%20Sea%5D%20RINNSTEINPROPHET %20RINNSTEINPROPHET%20. jpg -- teleportation kills -- teleportation kills |
#52
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: On Thursday, 11 May 2017 11:41:43 UTC+1, android wrote: In article , Whisky-dave wrote: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote: In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote: On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said: In article , nap wrote: In article , PeterN wrote: [ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher shutter speed, than my FF. [ ... ] 1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec. I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS... I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for Ch. The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps. If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will have to buy a D4S or D5. There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size. Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the D800 is slower than the CF interface. Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the medium which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The 4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big issue in a studio, or for landscapes. There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810 while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer just chokes on those fat NEF files. The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame rate for you? If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right position. Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved, incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking. I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds. I found that where the target is passing through a practical capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event for example a 5 to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single frame, or perhaps two to work on. https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a slow climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill. https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars. Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters? Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on the planes and cares do not change. However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change quite often. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg I like the first and fourth, best. I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera. If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to a different level. Bird lovers should not watch. https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0 The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that what they publish: yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions.... I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris, Osborne and perhaps Farage. You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ? I could tell you but... -- teleportation kills |
#53
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
On 2017-05-11 10:41:39 +0000, android said:
You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp It could have been very different: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqwfxucmvua6qks/Farside93091.jpg -- Regards, Savageduck |
#54
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
In article 2017051109254489551-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-11 10:41:39 +0000, android said: You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp It could have been very different: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tqwfxucmvua6qks/Farside93091.jpg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218 -- teleportation kills |
#55
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
On Thu, 11 May 2017 03:54:13 -0700 (PDT), Whisky-dave
wrote: On Thursday, 11 May 2017 11:41:43 UTC+1, android wrote: In article , Whisky-dave wrote: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 17:24:40 UTC+1, android wrote: In article 2017051008534346517-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 15:28:14 +0000, Whisky-dave said: On Wednesday, 10 May 2017 14:03:23 UTC+1, peterN wrote: On 5/9/2017 11:12 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-10 00:58:11 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 6:25 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 22:01:39 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 3:57 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 19:02:03 +0000, PeterN said: On 5/9/2017 1:54 PM, Savageduck wrote: On 2017-05-09 17:34:25 +0000, android said: In article , nap wrote: In article , PeterN wrote: [ ... ] I got a D500, which is an APS C, with a much higher shutter speed, than my FF. [ ... ] 1/8000 sec is much, much faster than 1/8000 sec. I think that PeterN had the frame rate in mind, FPS... I can live with as low as 5fps Cl, and I am happy to have 11fps for Ch. The 800 doesn't go to 10 fps. If you want to get that sort of rate out of a Nikon FF you will have to buy a D4S or D5. There are a whole bunch of factors controlling frame rate. With the D800/D810 Nikons the inhibiting factor is the massive file size. Couple that with a much slower rate when using the SD card over the CF card. According to a Lexar tech rep I met, the SD interface in the D800 is slower than the CF interface. Which it shouldn't be, but if you are shooting Ch, one would think that that if one slot was performance downgraded, you would select the medium which performed best. Even then the difference between the two isn't going to be the biggest factor in slowing down the Ch rate, it is still going to be the file size and the ability for the buffer to clear. The 4fps rate found in the specs is the performance ceiling, not a big issue in a studio, or for landscapes. There is a reason the FF Nikons best suited for high frame rate sport shooting are the D4S 16MP(10fps) and D5 20MP (11fps). The D800/D810 while having great resolution is limited to 4fps before the buffer just chokes on those fat NEF files. The question I have is, just how important is a very high frame rate for you? If you are satisfied, great. I would think that the higher frame rate gives me a chance of getting the wings of a bird in just the right position. Probably. It is just one method for capturing that magnificent miracle shot, but still no guarantee. There are additional factors involved, incuding, but not limited to stuff such as AF-C tracking. I am NOT saying that a lower FR is not good for animals & birds. I found that where the target is passing through a practical capture, or composition window, at an airshow, or motorsport event for example a 5 to 11 frame burst is the most that is actually practical. I typically end up with a usable burst of 5 to 8 frames, and can find a single frame, or perhaps two to work on. https://www.dropbox.com/s/apoel49w3s05ota/screenshot_48.jpg When I have shot an event such as the triathlon cyclists making a slow climb towards me up an extremely steep hill, Cl at 4-5fps is just fine, 8-11fps is too much, and just over-kill. https://www.dropbox.com/s/93je2mw5g665zbk/screenshot_47.jpg There is a difference between shooting live critters and cars. Are not pilots, drivers, and cyclists live critters? Most of the time their vehicles are the subject. The expressions on the planes and cares do not change. However, for some odd reason the expressions on cyclists seem to change quite often. https://www.dropbox.com/s/jtpwq70bxjf7dhg/DSF2420-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/cit0eig1wcbplnh/DSF2575-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xgpw562ct8exl4/DSF2716-E.jpg https://www.dropbox.com/s/b9iscn0ugjcwtgw/DSF2775-E.jpg I like the first and fourth, best. I suspect there are more birds and monkeys, than cyclists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmqUpJMVBWY I used to have a budgie that rode on the back of a toy jeep, seemed to really like it. No photos, it was before I had a camera. If you like the concept of birds in toy vehicles there is a somewhat disturbing scene in the movie "The Salton Sea" which takes that idea to a different level. Bird lovers should not watch. https://youtu.be/In3vPyyLbI0 The above still applies! This is why organizations like the Goog should be forced into accountability and to take more responsibility on that what they publish: yes they should stick to doing this to more recent polititions.... I;d find it difficulyt to not want to take a shot at Trump, Boris, Osborne and perhaps Farage. You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ? Undoubtedly: by somebody. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#56
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote: You do realize that that was an unauthorized liquidation of four innocent messenger pigeons. BirdieSnuffSnuff! :-ppp Yes unauthorized, so was JFK's authorized ? Undoubtedly: by somebody. Yep isn't that the differnce between murder and a medal ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2ViNJFZC8 -- teleportation kills |
#57
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
Wally,
I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system, the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use, although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade. In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm), so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6.... -hh |
#58
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
On 5/12/2017 5:47 PM, -hh wrote:
Wally, I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system, the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use, although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade. In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm), so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6.... In my diving days, I used a Nikkormat in a housing with a 20mm lens, and a housed strobe. I guess that was FF, and I had a lot of fun. For all practical purposes there is a very little chance that I will get wet again. I do miss that blue Ecktachrome look. -- PeterN |
#59
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
On Fri, 12 May 2017 14:47:06 -0700 (PDT), -hh
wrote: Wally, I've been on Canon crop bodies for quite awhile ... latest are a 7D and a 7Dmk2. Was originally contemplating the 5Dmk2 in lieu of the 7D for a housed underwater system, but passed on it due to my parallel interest in Autofocus performance for critters, and the scond generation 5D used the same AF as the first generation, which had received criticism. Given how pricy the bits are for an UW system, the 7Dmk2 hasn't yet merited replacing the 7D as the primary for that use, although for land use long telephoto shots, it clearly is better. I was tempted some when the 6D came out, but it's AF performance didn't appear to be as good (reportedly) as the 7Dmk2, so that was the trade. In any case, this UW use case merited buying an EF-S wide angle (10-22mm), so I'm not really hurting for a Full Frame for going wide (although I do get tempted, just because). Ditto for UW macro with a 60mm prime...overall, I'm not really all that concerned with the prospects of adding a "single purpose" EF-S lens here or there, as these tend to be good values, even if they're not ever going to be sold as (or quite as good as) white "L" glass: I typically save up my money for using it to get L glass on telephotos...currently a 70-200 f2.8 and 400 f/4 ... the latter will stack with a 7D and 1.4x to be a handhold-able 900mm equivalent @ f/5.6.... -hh Ah yes, very good. L means nothing to me. Everybody wants L glass, because L is the best, cannot be surpassed. If you know nothing about lenses, just go into the store and tell them you want an L lens. The 24-105mm L lenses are crap. But the MPE-65mm and 400 DO II are not L, and are very fine lenses. |
#60
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Should I buy a 6D or 5D4?
PeterN wrote:
In my diving days, I used a Nikkormat in a housing with a 20mm lens, and a housed strobe. IIRC, the Nikonos V was circa 1977 (40th anniversary this year?), so stuff earlier than that is really quite ... vintage! I guess that was FF, and I had a lot of fun. For all practical purposes there is a very little chance that I will get wet again. I do miss that blue Ecktachrome look. Yes, 35mm film would've considered FF. Coincidentally, a guy on the boat just yesterday had an old Nikonos V with the Nikkor 15mm and the (Replacemeant for the SB-103) SB-105 strobe...he thinks he got a nice shot of a fat blacktip...mine came out a bit too dark/blue, as the modern digital stuff isn't as condusive to default settings (particularly focus), which can/does result in shutter AF lag. And you're right about the Ecktachrome "look": sure, in theory it should be able to be duplicated, but that's not necessarily a trvial task. Doubly so for the specialty UW Ecktachrome that Kodak made for a few years, where one had to add a filter to your strobe. And sunbursts are still not as good/easy with digital vs film, as the (non)linearity aspects of the two are *quite* different...and not something all that recoverable in post. -hh -- PeterN |
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