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#1
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
I don't have access to current professional equipment, software, or
media, so I will rely on feedback and past experience, and the criticism thereof video sensor and filtration device color space assumptions face a complexity with other output than CRT (LCD, LED, Plasma, OLED, and I read better LCD is on the way) ICC solution to dynamic range is based on ProPhoto RGB according to wikipedia (there is also Adobe RGB, and Wide Gamut RGB, on wikipedia) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ProPhoto_RGB implemented in RIMM,ERIMM, and ROMM http://www.color.org http://www.color.org/chardata/rgb/rimmrgb.xalter http://www.color.org/chardata/rgb/erimmrgb.xalter http://www.color.org/romm.xalter ICC does not reveal the assumed film or idealistic/standard film used in ProPhoto RGB ProPhotoRGB chromaticity coordinates are linear with CIE chromaticity coordinates CIE tone is linear with light (L,Y,B,V) or linear with lightness (L*) film due to chemical considerations of activity and exhaustion and design for dynamic range treatments, has a toe and shoulder modeled and designed using a quadratic as opposed to linear contrast, such as a rational quadratic which does not bend over the toe or shoulder since film contrast is not linear, some calculations must be performed to have it linear ICC does not reveal such considerations Kodak designed ProPhoto RGB, probably in light of sRGB workflows being accepted, as opposed to using an ideal digital camera and an ideal digital projector as the RIMM,ERIMM, ROMM (additive color used in displays has more dynamic range than subtractive colors used prints) one Kodak implementation I know called Premier (a system of scanning film, manipulating and editing film, and outputting film) used a linearized film assumption I believe this linearization was achieved by unbuilding the rationall quadratic contrast, and some form of interimage of an Ektachrome film of the time, be it spectral sensitivity interimage or chemical process interimage, I don't really know which one or if both were used, I heard it once but I forget some use cases would prefer color matching as opposed to appearance matching and would not use RIMM,ERIMM, ROMM, they would use CIE RGB but most use cases involve a viewing and acceptance of an image, even if it just a consumer looking at something and saying it is "good enough" what is ProPhotoRGB? Is it a negative with exposure latitude suiting it to ERIMM? if so this could complement many hybrid workflows where transparency film output is used or copied in an analog fashion in fact you could design a color negative film to be scanned, manipulated, output, and projected with ICC color management you unbuild the non-linearity and crosstalk of the film as long as it's image dyes chromaticity coordinates result in something close enough to linear with CIE chromaticity coordinates, making it easier to scan on a scanner whose exposure, filtration and sensitivity are designed to be linear with CIE chromaticity coordinates manipulation algorithms relative to CIE are widely available, but you could add analog editing, and hybrid algorithms to the mix you can design a projector (exposure, filtration) in a digital environment, with the right analog and hybrid manipulation consideration, to display a color negative instead of using a transparency intermediate such a projector design leads to an easy film recorder design same with monitor design ... is film dead? should you snip most of the above? are professional digital capture, manipulation and output already exceeding color negatives for dynamic range and exposure latitude? even considering push and pull chemical processing? then why not a digital RIMM,ERIMM and ROMM? the ICC site says color managed workflows have not taken hold in digital, I read once, is this because of sRGB(video) and ProPhotoRGB(film) workflow interference? are digital RIMM,ERIMM and ROMM to far outside of CIE eye based considerations? then why not use CIE RGB for the RIMM,ERIMM, and ROMM probably the best bet considering printed page is not dead and Perceptual Reference Medium (PRM) can be used in ICC http://www.color.org/v4_prmg.xalter is to give customers choices for their use cases of what reference suits them things like lighting, surround, flare, viewing angle, measurement considerations likewise could all be incorporated a little more education,, maybe too much for "good enough" color, especially since "more attractive color" exists some form of device independent "accurate" color and appearance must be a starting point? for consumers, white balance might not be the only scene balance that is used, you could use analog and hybrid models to get to the "more attractive color" achieved in consumer films like "pop" saturation if you think I am a troll, give me a entry level imaging systems job in my area and I will have to keep my ideas to myself, I don't quite qualify for standards or open systems work, so here I am on usenet, wikipedia, wiktionary and the web I have an undergrad honors degree in ChemE with minors in polymer science and math (forget most of this) I know a little MATLAB and SAS I know basic programming on punch cards and punch card readers I know Fortran data flow programming I know modular Pascal data flow programming I know a little C I know a little object oriented (OO) architecture/design I know a little C++ OO programming I know the basics of java systems and OO programming I just can't get abstract IDEs like netbeans or operating system required libraries, out of my head to write a complex program maybe I should spend more time learning java than talking on usenet -- Dale |
#2
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
In article ,
Dale wrote: you can design a projector (exposure, filtration) in a digital environment, with the right analog and hybrid manipulation consideration, to display a color negative instead of using a transparency intermediate such a projector design leads to an easy film recorder design I did some film recorder development about 30 years ago. I don't think "easy" is a term I'd use in conjunction with their design (assuming you wanted any sort of decent quality, anyhow). Isaac |
#3
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
On 02/26/2014 11:58 PM, isw wrote:
In article , Dale wrote: you can design a projector (exposure, filtration) in a digital environment, with the right analog and hybrid manipulation consideration, to display a color negative instead of using a transparency intermediate such a projector design leads to an easy film recorder design I did some film recorder development about 30 years ago. I don't think "easy" is a term I'd use in conjunction with their design (assuming you wanted any sort of decent quality, anyhow). Isaac I'm just talking to myself while I write and share my thoughts, sometimes I'm wrong, I even have two kook awards on alt.usenet.kooks from my political, philosophical, psychological,, sociological and religious viewpoints on other groups, feel free to nominate me for another kook award, I am not a troll, I am a kook never did any hardware development, I did paper development, process development, hybrid systems development no research assignments, an engineer not a scientist, but I dabbled in science when I could I'd like to think my mainly applications work that could have led up to system work at Kodak R&D for 9 years contributed to a little system development, or so I was complemented sometimes I had a good boss that told me to specialize and not try to understand everything about imaging, there are few generals in imaging standards, people like David McDowell you really have to read into my rudimentary explanations, somethings are outright wrong no doubt, just putting some pieces together in 17 years of reflection and internet -- Dale |
#4
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
On 02/26/2014 11:08 PM, Dale wrote:
one Kodak implementation I know called Premier (a system of scanning film, manipulating and editing film, and outputting film) used a linearized film assumption sort of like applying "printing density" if you know what that is, maybe this will explain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cineon -- Dale |
#5
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
On 02/26/2014 11:08 PM, Dale wrote:
if you think I am a troll, give me a entry level imaging systems job in my area and I will have to keep my ideas to myself, I don't quite qualify for standards or open systems work, so here I am on usenet, wikipedia, wiktionary and the web I have an undergrad honors degree in ChemE with minors in polymer science and math (forget most of this) I know a little MATLAB and SAS I know basic programming on punch cards and punch card readers I know Fortran data flow programming I know modular Pascal data flow programming I know a little C I know a little object oriented (OO) architecture/design I know a little C++ OO programming I know the basics of java systems and OO programming I just can't get abstract IDEs like netbeans or operating system required libraries, out of my head to write a complex program maybe I should spend more time learning java than talking on usenet 9 years on the job imaging R&D at Kodak 17 years reflection and internet/wikipedia, etc. study -- Dale |
#6
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dynamic range and exposure latitude?
On 02/26/2014 11:08 PM, Dale wrote:
maybe I should spend more time learning java than talking on usenet and Software as a Service (SaaS) Cloud Computing java requires a license to distribute development, so C or C++ on my linux system is where I will look at metafile (vector/raster combinations) imaging stuff I think a specialization, better suited to me than trying to be a general of the whole imaging industry with my limited experience -- Dale |
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