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kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 8th 08, 04:24 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Hans Koana
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Posts: 7
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

hello

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of
120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by this
long-time-exposure?

regards h.k.
  #2  
Old December 8th 08, 07:18 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Richard Knoppow
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Posts: 751
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure


"Hans Koana" wrote in message
...
hello

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some
dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i
push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i
shooted a roll of
120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed
very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect
of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1:
9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2
stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones,
enforced by this
long-time-exposure?

regards h.k.


First of all using a developer like Xtol, T-Max or
T-Max RS, DDX, or Microphen will gain a bit of speed over
HC-110, perhaps 3/4 stop. Increasing development time to
"push" film just increases the contrast. Where the exposure
is mostly on the toe, which has lower contrast than the rest
of the film curve, the increase will make this low contrast
image more easily printable but will result in very high
contrast for anything which has received more exposure. Your
exposure error is around two stops. If its based on the
normal film speed you can probably pull out printable
negatives but forget the zone system because the tone
rendition will be a bit distorted by the reciprocity failure
plus you are getting very near the limit of exposure which
will register on the film. Again, I suggest using a
different type of developer for this roll and trying to push
a couple of stops. Plus-X responds fairly well to pushing.


--
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles, CA, USA



  #3  
Old December 8th 08, 07:23 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Hans Koana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

Richard Knoppow schrieb:

First of all using a developer like Xtol, T-Max or
T-Max RS, DDX, or Microphen will gain a bit of speed over
HC-110, perhaps 3/4 stop. Increasing development time to
"push" film just increases the contrast. Where the exposure
is mostly on the toe, which has lower contrast than the rest
of the film curve, the increase will make this low contrast
image more easily printable but will result in very high
contrast for anything which has received more exposure. Your
exposure error is around two stops. If its based on the
normal film speed you can probably pull out printable
negatives but forget the zone system because the tone
rendition will be a bit distorted by the reciprocity failure
plus you are getting very near the limit of exposure which
will register on the film. Again, I suggest using a
different type of developer for this roll and trying to push
a couple of stops. Plus-X responds fairly well to pushing.


Thank you very much, i will try it soon. But I think I have got to
revisit this little church in Romont / Switzerland again to take
photographs of the choir. Thank you again.

Regards H.K.
  #4  
Old December 8th 08, 07:27 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: 1,353
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

On 12/8/2008 7:24 AM Hans Koana spake thus:

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of


That would be "I shot a roll" in English.

120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by this
long-time-exposure?


Seems to me that's all you *can* do; otherwise, you're going to
completely lose whatever shadow detail you have, or get a low-contrast,
difficult-to-print negative.


--
Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the
powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.

- Paulo Freire
  #5  
Old December 8th 08, 07:39 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Hans Koana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

David Nebenzahl schrieb:
On 12/8/2008 7:24 AM Hans Koana spake thus:

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of


That would be "I shot a roll" in English.

120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by this
long-time-exposure?


Seems to me that's all you *can* do; otherwise, you're going to
completely lose whatever shadow detail you have, or get a low-contrast,
difficult-to-print negative.



I do not know wether this development (N+2) would be wrong because the
scene is very dark, with wooden figures that come out of the dark
background. I Will try it again. Thank you. Regards H.K.


  #6  
Old December 8th 08, 08:02 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Lawrence Akutagawa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure


"Hans Koana" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl schrieb:
On 12/8/2008 7:24 AM Hans Koana spake thus:

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of


That would be "I shot a roll" in English.

120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by this
long-time-exposure?


Seems to me that's all you *can* do; otherwise, you're going to
completely lose whatever shadow detail you have, or get a low-contrast,
difficult-to-print negative.


I do not know wether this development (N+2) would be wrong because the
scene is very dark, with wooden figures that come out of the dark
background. I Will try it again. Thank you. Regards H.K.

If you are in fact able to try it again, I strongly suggest that you
bracket. If your base exposure is 200 sec (over 3 minutes!), try in
addition to 200 sec exposures of 400 sec and 800 sec.


  #7  
Old December 9th 08, 02:02 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Hans Koana
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

Lawrence Akutagawa schrieb:
"Hans Koana" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl schrieb:
On 12/8/2008 7:24 AM Hans Koana spake thus:

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of
That would be "I shot a roll" in English.

120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by this
long-time-exposure?
Seems to me that's all you *can* do; otherwise, you're going to
completely lose whatever shadow detail you have, or get a low-contrast,
difficult-to-print negative.

I do not know wether this development (N+2) would be wrong because the
scene is very dark, with wooden figures that come out of the dark
background. I Will try it again. Thank you. Regards H.K.

If you are in fact able to try it again, I strongly suggest that you
bracket. If your base exposure is 200 sec (over 3 minutes!), try in
addition to 200 sec exposures of 400 sec and 800 sec.


Hello,

I have got to take the train from Bern to Romont (50km). The calculated
exposure time as indicated on my Gossen Lunasix F is t=30sec (c.e.),
f=11, ASA 125, with incident light metering. Following the instructions
by Kodak, I need t=200sec (a.e.) as the adjusted exposure time. And I
have got to adjust the development -30%, what means N-1, to avoid
lighter zones that are too contrasty.

But you're right: it is better to bracket than loosing an exposure. For
this reason I will bracket and try an additional exposure time of
t=60sec (c.e.) / t=550sec (a.e.) (one stop). This is nearly in the
middle of your two suggestions. The contrast of the scene is not so wide
(about 4 zones max.), and this is why 1/3 stop of under- or overexposure
is not so difficult to manage.

Regards H.K.
  #8  
Old December 9th 08, 06:04 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Lawrence Akutagawa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure


"Hans Koana" wrote in message
...
Lawrence Akutagawa schrieb:
"Hans Koana" wrote in message
...
David Nebenzahl schrieb:
On 12/8/2008 7:24 AM Hans Koana spake thus:

yesterday, in a dark church, where i photographed some dark choir
stalls, i underexposed a kodak 125px (3 stops). normally i push it to
get good grey values, which is not so bad because i shooted a roll of
That would be "I shot a roll" in English.

120-film (6x6). but when i made the photographs i exposed very long
time
so contrast will be enhanced a lot because of the effect of
reciprocity.
i exposed 45 sec instead of 200 sec.

normally i develop in kodak hc 110 - b, n+0: 6,5 min. n+1: 9 min, n+2
12,5 min. what do you mean? should i take n+2, loose 2 stops, so that
zone v falls down at iii, whith a contrast of 3 zones, enforced by
this
long-time-exposure?
Seems to me that's all you *can* do; otherwise, you're going to
completely lose whatever shadow detail you have, or get a low-contrast,
difficult-to-print negative.
I do not know wether this development (N+2) would be wrong because the
scene is very dark, with wooden figures that come out of the dark
background. I Will try it again. Thank you. Regards H.K.

If you are in fact able to try it again, I strongly suggest that you
bracket. If your base exposure is 200 sec (over 3 minutes!), try in
addition to 200 sec exposures of 400 sec and 800 sec.


Hello,

I have got to take the train from Bern to Romont (50km). The calculated
exposure time as indicated on my Gossen Lunasix F is t=30sec (c.e.),
f=11, ASA 125, with incident light metering. Following the instructions
by Kodak, I need t=200sec (a.e.) as the adjusted exposure time. And I
have got to adjust the development -30%, what means N-1, to avoid
lighter zones that are too contrasty.

But you're right: it is better to bracket than loosing an exposure. For
this reason I will bracket and try an additional exposure time of
t=60sec (c.e.) / t=550sec (a.e.) (one stop). This is nearly in the
middle of your two suggestions. The contrast of the scene is not so wide
(about 4 zones max.), and this is why 1/3 stop of under- or overexposure
is not so difficult to manage.

For what it is worth, here's another idea -

I surmise you are shooting 120 6x6. Bracket the first four exposures
however you want. Place the lens cap back on the camera and shoot the next
four frames. Take the lens cap off and bracket the last four exposures
exactly as you did the first. In the darkroom, carefully remove the paper
backing of the film and cut the film in half so you have four exposures in
each half. Placing the second half in a light tight place, load the first
half in the developing tank and develop as you see fit. Examine the
developed and fixed first half. If you are satisfied, fine. If you are
not, you then have a benchmark against which you can now develop the second
half.


  #9  
Old December 9th 08, 07:17 PM posted to rec.photo.darkroom
Thor Lancelot Simon
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Posts: 163
Default kodak 125px underexposed (3 stops) while long-time-exposure

In article ,
Hans Koana wrote:

I have got to take the train from Bern to Romont (50km). The calculated
exposure time as indicated on my Gossen Lunasix F is t=30sec (c.e.),
f=11, ASA 125, with incident light metering. Following the instructions
by Kodak, I need t=200sec (a.e.) as the adjusted exposure time. And I
have got to adjust the development -30%, what means N-1, to avoid
lighter zones that are too contrasty.


Don't use Plus-X! The reciprocity behavior of modern Kodak films is
much, much better, which also means that less development adjustment
will be required.

--
Thor Lancelot Simon
"Even experienced UNIX users occasionally enter rm *.* at the UNIX
prompt only to realize too late that they have removed the wrong
segment of the directory structure." - Microsoft WSS whitepaper
 




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