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#151
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RichA wrote:
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:51:04 GMT, SMS wrote: wrote: I think this is bang on... i remember from a 'branding' presentation by Deloitte & Touche at my company, about the Heinz Ketchup phenomenon. Ketchup in plastic -- cheaper to manufacture, shatter resistant, lightweight, greater volume possible. Win-win-win for everyone, including cost savings passed onto the consumer. Within 2 years of going 'plastic only' Heinz sales dropped around 50%... the perception of quality hurt Heinz, so they reintroduced the bottle. In the end, Heinz hurt themselves since they now market plastic bottles (for the intelligent cost savings/conveinece folks) AND glass (for restaurants, uneducated consumers) although they've since regained their market share. I suspect this example is a bit dated now (plastic is more accepted) but it was very relevant in the late 1980s/early 1990s. People bash the 350D for its size ('it feels like a toy!') and tis polycarbonate body, even though both have more advantages than disadvantages. They bash it being fully aware of the advantages of polycarbonate, and the advantages of its size. Don't confuse reality with the posts by people that simply like to bash Canon. People should ask themselves a question. If the Rebel were offered as it is in both plastic and aluminum, for the same price, which one would you pick? -Rich The black one. G |
#152
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RichA wrote:
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:51:04 GMT, SMS wrote: wrote: I think this is bang on... i remember from a 'branding' presentation by Deloitte & Touche at my company, about the Heinz Ketchup phenomenon. Ketchup in plastic -- cheaper to manufacture, shatter resistant, lightweight, greater volume possible. Win-win-win for everyone, including cost savings passed onto the consumer. Within 2 years of going 'plastic only' Heinz sales dropped around 50%... the perception of quality hurt Heinz, so they reintroduced the bottle. In the end, Heinz hurt themselves since they now market plastic bottles (for the intelligent cost savings/conveinece folks) AND glass (for restaurants, uneducated consumers) although they've since regained their market share. I suspect this example is a bit dated now (plastic is more accepted) but it was very relevant in the late 1980s/early 1990s. People bash the 350D for its size ('it feels like a toy!') and tis polycarbonate body, even though both have more advantages than disadvantages. They bash it being fully aware of the advantages of polycarbonate, and the advantages of its size. Don't confuse reality with the posts by people that simply like to bash Canon. People should ask themselves a question. If the Rebel were offered as it is in both plastic and aluminum, for the same price, which one would you pick? -Rich I just thought of questions I'd like to ask that would be similar to your question. Which would be preferred in a camera body, plastic lens mounts or SS steel lens mounts? Why? If SS steel lens mounts are preferred, would it be acceptble assembly practice to join a SS steel camera body lens mount to a plastic body. ? Why? |
#153
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I just thought of questions I'd like to ask that would be similar to your question. Which would be preferred in a camera body, plastic lens mounts or SS steel lens mounts? Why? If SS steel lens mounts are preferred, would it be acceptble assembly practice to join a SS steel camera body lens mount to a plastic body. ? Why? Stainless steel - because of it's wear and fit characteristics. This is a different requirement to the rest of the body where the characteristics of polycarbonate gives satisfactory performance. The answer to your second question is obviously 'yes', since many fabricated items, not only cameras, do this, by moulding, bonding, screwing, rivetting, swaging, or other methods of joining dissimilar materials. The answers to both of these questions are so fundamentally obvious that I wonder you have to ask them. Are you genuinely uncertain, or are you attempting to troll here? Colin D. |
#154
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 16:36:09 -0700, nick c wrote:
RichA wrote: On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 18:51:04 GMT, SMS wrote: wrote: I think this is bang on... i remember from a 'branding' presentation by Deloitte & Touche at my company, about the Heinz Ketchup phenomenon. Ketchup in plastic -- cheaper to manufacture, shatter resistant, lightweight, greater volume possible. Win-win-win for everyone, including cost savings passed onto the consumer. Within 2 years of going 'plastic only' Heinz sales dropped around 50%... the perception of quality hurt Heinz, so they reintroduced the bottle. In the end, Heinz hurt themselves since they now market plastic bottles (for the intelligent cost savings/conveinece folks) AND glass (for restaurants, uneducated consumers) although they've since regained their market share. I suspect this example is a bit dated now (plastic is more accepted) but it was very relevant in the late 1980s/early 1990s. People bash the 350D for its size ('it feels like a toy!') and tis polycarbonate body, even though both have more advantages than disadvantages. They bash it being fully aware of the advantages of polycarbonate, and the advantages of its size. Don't confuse reality with the posts by people that simply like to bash Canon. People should ask themselves a question. If the Rebel were offered as it is in both plastic and aluminum, for the same price, which one would you pick? -Rich The black one. G I'm beginning to wonder about that too. They look better, but on a hot day a black bodied camera heats up more than a silver one. -Rich "Bittorrents are REFUNDS for all the BAD movie products Hollywood never gave us refunds for in the past" |
#155
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Colin D wrote:
I just thought of questions I'd like to ask that would be similar to your question. Which would be preferred in a camera body, plastic lens mounts or SS steel lens mounts? Why? If SS steel lens mounts are preferred, would it be acceptble assembly practice to join a SS steel camera body lens mount to a plastic body. ? Why? Stainless steel - because of it's wear and fit characteristics. This is a different requirement to the rest of the body where the characteristics of polycarbonate gives satisfactory performance. I'm not addressing polycarbonate camera bodies. I'm addressing camera mounts and I'm asking these questions to learn if those that champion polycarbonate camera bodies would also champion plastic camera lens mounts, and why. As to your concern for lens mount wear and fit, there are plastics that have fairly decent wear and fit characteristics, polytetrafluorethlene for example. It's machineable and is often used as bearing bushing material, even in high speed rotational designs so, your 'wear' or 'fit' concern would seem to be invalid. The answer to your second question is obviously 'yes', since many fabricated items, not only cameras, do this, by moulding, bonding, screwing, rivetting, swaging, or other methods of joining dissimilar materials. Not so fast there Colin. Bonding internal parts might well handicap or otherwise restrict maintainability. Some Plastics that can be injection molded may bring with them thermal stability concerns, riveting plastics would be not be advisable in thin plastic cross-sectional material as plastics appear to do poorly where 'hoop stress' is applied, and I truly doubt 'swaging' would be readily approved because of plastic 'cold flow' (and or cracking) of some plastics. Mylar would be an exception to 'cold flow' but Mylar can't take compressive loads because it will crack under compression and it seems to shred when exposed to untraviolet light for long periods of time. Screwing directly into plastic with expectations that over a given time the screw would stay put is not a good idea. Cheap lenses that have plastic mounts screwed onto a lens body are not expected to be often used (after camera newness wears off) and such lenses are not expected to be removed and replaced very often as a pro or serious camera buff would do. In fact, cheap plastic lenses may well see higher repair costs than would be encountered buying new cheap plastic lenses. As for screws, soon after tightening a screw into a plastic material, the torque load applied might very well become reduced. Besides, screws specially made for plastics often have holding characteristics that when removing the screw, the threaded joint is degraded so that screwing again into that joint would not prove to be reliable. A lot of consideration must be given to 'plastics' before one can readily say plastics are better than metals. In many applications they may well be but in many they may well not be suitable. I don't have answers to so many questions that cross my mind. The answers to both of these questions are so fundamentally obvious that I wonder you have to ask them. Are you genuinely uncertain, or are you attempting to troll here? Colin D. Not troll Colin. Contrary to an opinion of my learning intentions, the answers to the questions are not fundamentally obvious. I sure don't know the camera design business or repair business but I'm not ready to have it look like I know more about the camera design or camera repair business or that I'm a good judge of camera materials being used in high end cameras. The camera associated industry does not funnel field encounted problems through me, so I'm not in a loop to see what parts of camera designs need to be changed or upgraded. I have two digital cameras that have metal bodies. I didn't buy them because they had metal bodies, I bought them because that have capabilities and reliability aspects that interest me. I trust camera designers to make best judgment calls as to how to design-to-cost and manufacturing experts to know how best to assemble cameras with maintenance in mind. As a user, my concerns center on camera systems capability and long term reliability. When all involved 'do their thing' I expect to get what I pay for and expect cameras to perform in manners and ways that suit me over a period of time that I intend to use them. However, thank you Colin for your much appreaciated thoughts on the subject. |
#156
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On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:41:55 -0700, nick c wrote:
Colin D wrote: I just thought of questions I'd like to ask that would be similar to your question. Which would be preferred in a camera body, plastic lens mounts or SS steel lens mounts? Why? If SS steel lens mounts are preferred, would it be acceptble assembly practice to join a SS steel camera body lens mount to a plastic body. ? Why? Stainless steel - because of it's wear and fit characteristics. This is a different requirement to the rest of the body where the characteristics of polycarbonate gives satisfactory performance. I'm not addressing polycarbonate camera bodies. I'm addressing camera mounts and I'm asking these questions to learn if those that champion polycarbonate camera bodies would also champion plastic camera lens mounts, and why. That would be a mistake, IMO. Despite what some have said about the durability of plastics, the idea of a little tange on lens mount being made of plastic is a big mistake because inevitably, without great care, it will break. Nikon's latest small (18-55mm) kit lens is all plastic, the body and the lens mount, but I don't know if any small protruding parts or "functional" parts (lock elements, etc) are plastic as well. -Rich "Bittorrents are REFUNDS for all the BAD movie products Hollywood never gave us refunds for in the past" |
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