Low light group event portrait

"Pudentame" wrote in message
...

Good white balance while shooting works better; even if you can change it
in the raw converter.

The main reason I like to get the WB right while shooting is that when I
browse through my RAW files then that it the WB I will see, even though it
can be changed in the RAW editor's settings later. Browsing through loads
of RAWS with the wrong WB is not so good as they look awful even though they
are correctable.

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk

On 2007-07-24 20:32:44 -0400, Paul Furman said:

Floyd L. Davidson wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:
Floyd L. Davidson wrote:

I appreciate & respect your experienced opinion but
would you do that for $300? I could rent some flashes
but that also seems awfully distracting to the group.

For off camera work buy some *old* used flash units!
$10 for the optical trigger and $20-30 for the flash.

I do have an ancient flash, I tried it on my D70 hot shoe a couple
times but was afraid of the voltage problem. I didn't know you could
get a trigger for $10 wow... hmm they are all over ebay "optical flash
trigger" for $5 plus $7 shipping (ebay is so weird) I have an old
tripod too.

Ancient flashes are mot going to cut it on the D70 if it is TTL These
older flashes were designed for camera systems that measured light
reflected off the film plane. Digital flash systems are totally
computer controlled. I have an Nikon N902 and and SB28 flash and a
D70s and an SB800. The SB800 works really well on the D70s and not so
well on the N90s. The SB28 works great on the SB28 and not so well on
the D70s unless I use the SB800 as the commander flash and the SB28 as
the slave... that works real well. An ancient flash if it uses its
on thyristor might work OK (i.e. no TTTL metering, but you have some
trial and error. The problem is the flash sync is much different on
digital than film cameras. the iTTL flash system in the Nikon digital
series is pretty awesome, but it does require you use the the current
generation of flashes. My advice, they are paying you 300 bucks,.
take your Visa/Mastecrard and go buy and SB800. Once you get your 300
bucks send the check to Visa and be done with it. Problem solved.
This flash is danged near fool proof.

Group photography under candlelight or dim restaurant lighting is
difficult. And is that what they are looking for? Personally I would
do a mix. Use flash to shoot groups at each table, afterward, arrange
all in a single group and use the SB800 and get a good a group photo..
the SB800 will handle a group of 20 well.. I have used it with my 20mm
F2.8 on my D70s with a group of 40 and it worked well. The room had an
off white ceiling and I used it a 70 degree bounce with the reflector
card.

Then walk around with your fastest lens and take some natural light
shots singles. pairs and small groups of friends.. just use a higher
ISO setting. The group will love it.
Just because the place is dimly lit doesn't mean your photos need to be
also dimly lit. In fact, the portrait photos should not be.




Nikon's SB-24 is a good example, or get a Nikon SB-26
that has a built in optical trigger.

I have a couple SB-24's, a Vivitar 283, and a couple of
no-name brand X things. (With anything except the Nikon
models you absolutely to not want to ever directly
trigger it from the camera unless you go to the effort
to first measure the voltage on the trigger to be
certain that it is low enough to not damage the camera.)

These things come in handy every now and then. Another
helpful thing is to visit a few "second hand" shops and
buy up a few $5 tripods to hold those off camera flash
units.

A lot depends on the particular restaurant. How evenly
lit it is, how large the room is, how high the ceiling
is, and what color the walls and ceiling are.

I was told they'd have 'many' candles... and I assume
there is at least some dim overhead light but who
knows....

...OK I looked into it & it's a private banquet room
with windows & venetian blinds and it starts at 5:30 so
there'll be plenty of light & the candles are kind of
redundant at that time unless the blinds are
closed. This isn't the room but:
http://www.sharpparkgc.com/pg/photos/sharp_park_golf_course/picture273.aspx

That doesn't look bad! The walls and ceiling are nice.
That will even out whatever lighting there is, whether
from a window, a flash, or light fixtures.

I suppose I should drop by & look but it doesn't sound like a dark room.

*Definitely* go take a few pictures in the room before
hand! And do it at about 6:00 PM.

If I was pursuing this kind of work as a career I would but it's kind
of more like a favor for friends. And it doesn't hurt to become
competent at this sort of thing.

What with candles and windows, and maybe or maybe not flash,
I'd be using manual exposure control and be "chimping" all
the way! Especially if you want the candles to look good in
at least some of the pictures.

Ya, I'll be chimping for sure!


--
Jim

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:50:02 +0100, "Adrian Boliston"
wrote:

"Pudentame" wrote in message
.. .

Good white balance while shooting works better; even if you can change it
in the raw converter.

The main reason I like to get the WB right while shooting is that when I
browse through my RAW files then that it the WB I will see, even though it
can be changed in the RAW editor's settings later. Browsing through loads
of RAWS with the wrong WB is not so good as they look awful even though they
are correctable.

You have a bad workflow. Balance the WB on the first image then batch
process all images taken in that lighting to use the same corrected
WB. If you need to do any batch exposure compensation do that now as
well. THEN browse.

jc

Thanks Jim, good suggestions. You've all given me lots to think about.

Jim wrote:

Ancient flashes...SB800...

Group photography under candlelight or dim restaurant lighting is
difficult. And is that what they are looking for? Personally I would
do a mix.

Sounds like there will be good window light at the beginning so I'll do
a formal then & yes I guess the candlelight thing is part of their
vision so I'll do grainy mood shots later too.

Use flash to shoot groups at each table, afterward, arrange
all in a single group and use the SB800 and get a good a group photo..
the SB800 will handle a group of 20 well.. I have used it with my 20mm
F2.8 on my D70s with a group of 40 and it worked well. The room had an
off white ceiling and I used it a 70 degree bounce with the reflector card.

Then walk around with your fastest lens and take some natural light
shots singles. pairs and small groups of friends.. just use a higher
ISO setting. The group will love it.
Just because the place is dimly lit doesn't mean your photos need to be
also dimly lit. In fact, the portrait photos should not be.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 10:42:05 -0700, Paul Furman
wrote:

I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which
will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few
tables. ------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------

----------------------------Should I back out & tell them to hire someone
else with flash because this is a hopeless assignment? I enjoy low light
shooting but this will be really rough.

You need two or three small slave flashes. Wolf/Ritz might still sell
them for twenty bucks. They are just right for a long wedding party
main table. Play around with them until you are comfortable, before
the job. The units are very small and will get ten or fifteen flashes
from a pair of AAA cells.You can prop them or tape them to a chair
back or what ever is handy.

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:37:34 -0700, Paul Furman wrote:
: Thanks Jim, good suggestions. You've all given me lots to think about.
:
: Jim wrote:
:
: Ancient flashes...SB800...
:
: Group photography under candlelight or dim restaurant lighting is
: difficult. And is that what they are looking for? Personally I would
: do a mix.
:
: Sounds like there will be good window light at the beginning so I'll do
: a formal then & yes I guess the candlelight thing is part of their
: vision so I'll do grainy mood shots later too.

That works if everybody shows up on time. But if it's the cocktail hour that
begins at 5:30, it may be considerably later before you can get a formal
picture of the whole group. Restaurants don't usually have very high ceilings;
I'd plan on augmenting the ambient lighting with bounce flash.

Bob

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:55:05 -0400, Pudentame wrote:
: John McWilliams wrote:
: Pat wrote:
:
: First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
: whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.
:
: Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto, as you're
: shooting RAW.
:
: I've found that to be less than true.
:
: Good white balance while shooting works better; even if you can change
: it in the raw converter.

I've read (here, recently) that there's literally no difference between
getting the WB right and correcting it later. The assertion was that the
camera records exactly the same image, but sends along a parameter that
informs the raw converter of what the photographer intended. Changing that
parameter on the computer is no different from changing it on the camera.
(Unless you were going to do direct printing from the camera, which you
aren't.)

Bob

Robert Coe wrote:
On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:55:05 -0400, Pudentame wrote:
: John McWilliams wrote:
: Pat wrote:
:
: First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
: whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.
:
: Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto, as you're
: shooting RAW.
:
: I've found that to be less than true.
:
: Good white balance while shooting works better; even if you can change
: it in the raw converter.

I've read (here, recently) that there's literally no difference between
getting the WB right and correcting it later. The assertion was that the
camera records exactly the same image, but sends along a parameter that
informs the raw converter of what the photographer intended. Changing that
parameter on the computer is no different from changing it on the camera.
(Unless you were going to do direct printing from the camera, which you
aren't.)

I've read the opposite but still it's trivial in most cases. If the
lighting is consistent, it's really a time saver to use a preset/custom
WB but this is going to span from late afternoon through sunset so every
few minutes will be different.

But for discussion, I kind of like the idea of an intentionally warmer
WB for the candle light. For that, I guess I would shoot a custom WB
from a blue/green white card?

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

On Jul 27, 11:16 am, Paul Furman wrote:

If the lighting is consistent, it's really a time saver to use a preset/custom
WB but this is going to span from late afternoon through sunset so every
few minutes will be different.

Sounds like you need a WhiBal. Just keep it in your pocket and take a
photo of it whenever the light changes.

http://www.rawworkflow.com/products/whibal/index.html

"Paul Furman" wrote

But for discussion, I kind of like the idea of an intentionally warmer WB
for the candle light. For that, I guess I would shoot a custom WB from a
blue/green white card?

Can't really get an accurate 'candle light' look by playing with color
balance - or at least I can't, not to my satisfaction. You can make
a white that looks candle lit but any strong colors come out looking
distinctly odd and pale skin can go bright orange. If this is the
only way to do it then I would tweak for a candle-light look on skin
and let the WB be damned.

If the incandescent light is swamping the candles, and you can't turn
the lights down, then I would use a filter. A 'straw' or 'amber'
Rosco filter does a pretty good job of converting incandescent to
candle-light. Rosco's $5 'sampler' books are nice for emergency or
1-of filtering tasks - I just cut a square off with a pair of scissors
and drop into a filter holder. They used to give the small ones away
free but the filter size just fit the holder on a Vivitar 283 flash, when
word got around Rosco was swamped with requests for sample books.

If not mungged Rosco filters are optically perfectly OK for putting
over the lens.

There are a zillion* 'amber' and 'straw' colors, Rosco's web site should
have recommendations.

--

* 'Zillion': A number larger than the author wishes to deal with,
variously equal to 2 through a googolplex.

--
Nicholas O. Lindan, Cleveland, Ohio
Darkroom Automation: F-Stop Timers, Enlarging Meters
http://www.darkroomautomation.com/index.htm
n o lindan at ix dot netcom dot com