Low light group event portrait

Nicholas O. Lindan wrote:

a bunch of good advice

Great stuff, thanks much.

It doesn't have to artsy-fartsy, and aux lighting works with candles:

http://www.nolindan.com/UsenetStuff/olrlxmas.jpg

1-2 second exposure; standing on a step; tripod; longish lens (?).
It's easier to balance light sources in black and white.

* * * *
Whatever you do, don't do:

http://vision.berkeley.edu/wildsoet/...nner%20Out.jpg
http://www.caps.ou.edu/reu/reu03/images/DSCN2615.jpg
http://lotos.site.uottawa.ca/people/luigi/Hasan.jpg
http://www.tourismsociety.org/images...r%20graham.jpg
http://isi.cbs.nl/Bnews/01b/gani3.jpg

Now I'm scared, ack, that's why I'd never just hand them the memory card
(that's the way their request was phrased) eeeeeek!

Here's one with a bunch of your 'standing on a chair' shots:
http://www.photoshopnews.com/2005/10/25/the-pixel-mafia-2005-dinner

Whew, OK, it's possible to not make a mess of this :-)

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

On Jul 24, 1:42 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which
will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few
tables. I've agreed to do it but warned them that's really extraordinary
shooting conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's too long for most
cases on crop frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at 28mm & 35mm and
a 20mm f/2.8 AF though that starts getting so wide it distorts the
people at the edges. Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)

I suggested maybe turn on the lights for a few more formal group shots,
they don't seem to be planning to do any big prints, just wanting the
digital files for web or probably a small print in a corporate
newsletter or some such.

I don't have or know how to use external flash though I could try
reflecting the onboard flash with a white card at the ceiling.

I figure I'll do a custom WB setting and I'll bring a tripod though I
doubt that'll be useful for most of the candids. Maybe the 70-200/2.8 VR
could be tried for the VR at 70mm & further back for more candid stuff,
less of the photog in your face.

I probably should bring my laptop to check how it's working after the
first bit.

Any other suggestions? Should I back out & tell them to hire someone
else with flash because this is a hopeless assignment? I enjoy low light
shooting but this will be really rough.

Here's some examples with the 50mm f/1.2:
http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=2_human-world/4-People&PG=1&...
Click for enlargement.
The previous shot is soft due to the 1/3 second shutter speed:
http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=2_human-world/4-People&PG=1&...
This one shows the depth of field better (click for enlargement)
http://www.edgehill.net/1/Misc/photography/bokeh/2007-04-03-50mm1.2/_...
though that'll be less extreme in a wider group view.

--
Paul Furman Photographyhttp://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nurseryhttp://www.baynatives.com

First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Dial down your flash and bounce it off the ceiling, but consider
getting something a red, like red or yellow cellophane, and putting it
over your flash to put out a warmer light. You're on a budget so
you'll have to experiment a bit.

Use your star filter if you have one.

Use your tripod or monopod and get down to 1/30th to get a bit more
light.

Pat wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:42 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which
will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few
tables. I've agreed to do it but warned them that's really extraordinary
shooting conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's too long for most
cases on crop frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at 28mm & 35mm and
a 20mm f/2.8 AF though that starts getting so wide it distorts the
people at the edges. Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)

I suggested maybe turn on the lights for a few more formal group shots,
they don't seem to be planning to do any big prints, just wanting the
digital files for web or probably a small print in a corporate
newsletter or some such.

I don't have or know how to use external flash though I could try
reflecting the onboard flash with a white card at the ceiling.

I figure I'll do a custom WB setting and I'll bring a tripod though I
doubt that'll be useful for most of the candids. Maybe the 70-200/2.8 VR
could be tried for the VR at 70mm & further back for more candid stuff,
less of the photog in your face.

I probably should bring my laptop to check how it's working after the
first bit.

Any other suggestions? Should I back out & tell them to hire someone
else with flash because this is a hopeless assignment? I enjoy low light
shooting but this will be really rough.

First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto, as you're
shooting RAW.

Dial down your flash and bounce it off the ceiling, but consider
getting something a red, like red or yellow cellophane, and putting it
over your flash to put out a warmer light. You're on a budget so
you'll have to experiment a bit.

Wholly unnecessary shooting RAW.

Use your star filter if you have one.

Use your tripod or monopod and get down to 1/30th to get a bit more
light.

Only if you have to. With a big enough flash bounced off ceiling, you
may not have to go below say 1/200.


--
John McWilliams

John McWilliams wrote:
Pat wrote:
Paul Furman wrote:

Any other suggestions?

First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto, as you're
shooting RAW.

I was thinking that's a good suggestion to get the WB set and a little
warmer would be good to maintain the ambiance but then I realized the
sun will be setting over this period so the light will be constantly
changing so I guess it's gonna be auto WB. I have used custom WB before
and it was a big time saver to have the whole shoot come out consistent
but this might be a big chore to adjust each shot.

Dial down your flash and bounce it off the ceiling, but consider
getting something a red, like red or yellow cellophane, and putting it
over your flash to put out a warmer light. You're on a budget so
you'll have to experiment a bit.

Wholly unnecessary shooting RAW.

Well, it can still look strange to have blue on one side of people's
faces & red on the other.

Use your star filter if you have one.

I've got some old lenses that give that effect stopped down a bit.


Use your tripod or monopod and get down to 1/30th to get a bit more
light.

Only if you have to. With a big enough flash bounced off ceiling, you
may not have to go below say 1/200.

Not going to have a big flash or probably any flash.

--
Paul Furman Photography
http://www.edgehill.net/1
Bay Natives Nursery
http://www.baynatives.com

John McWilliams wrote:
Pat wrote:
On Jul 24, 1:42 pm, Paul Furman wrote:
I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which
will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few
tables. I've agreed to do it but warned them that's really extraordinary
shooting conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's too long for most
cases on crop frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at 28mm & 35mm and
a 20mm f/2.8 AF though that starts getting so wide it distorts the
people at the edges. Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)

I suggested maybe turn on the lights for a few more formal group shots,
they don't seem to be planning to do any big prints, just wanting the
digital files for web or probably a small print in a corporate
newsletter or some such.

I don't have or know how to use external flash though I could try
reflecting the onboard flash with a white card at the ceiling.

I figure I'll do a custom WB setting and I'll bring a tripod though I
doubt that'll be useful for most of the candids. Maybe the 70-200/2.8 VR
could be tried for the VR at 70mm & further back for more candid stuff,
less of the photog in your face.

I probably should bring my laptop to check how it's working after the
first bit.

Any other suggestions? Should I back out & tell them to hire someone
else with flash because this is a hopeless assignment? I enjoy low light
shooting but this will be really rough.
First off, be careful when you white balance. You
don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto,
as you're shooting RAW.
Dial down your flash and bounce it off the ceiling,
but consider
getting something a red, like red or yellow cellophane, and putting it
over your flash to put out a warmer light. You're on a budget so
you'll have to experiment a bit.

Wholly unnecessary shooting RAW.

I agree with John's comments above.

Use your star filter if you have one.
Use your tripod or monopod and get down to 1/30th to
get a bit more
light.

Only if you have to. With a big enough flash bounced off
ceiling, you may not have to go below say 1/200.

This one I also agree with, but it does need some
expansion.

The real trick is to adjust the amount of light provided
by the flash in relation to the light from the candles.
There is no set, cast in concrete, "right" ratio; rather there
are different effects from changing the ratio, and all of
them might be interesting.

To de-emphasize the candles, add more flash. With
enough, the candles won't even noticeable and might as
well not be there at all. For some shots, basically to
document who is there and what they were wearing at the
time, that's the ticket.

On the other end of the stick is of course a shot with
almost no flash. The trick there might be to take a
couple shots without flash to determine an exposure that
just barely keeps the candles within the top end of the
sensors dynamic range, and then add enough flash to
lighten up faces to make people recognizable. Or may
not that much! For a picture of the "ambiance" rather
than the people, use less flash.

Lots of creative opportunity there.

Note that one problem with using multiple flash units in
fixed locations, as I suggested earlier, is that you
cannot as easily adjust the amount of light from the
flash to get different lighting ratios from other
sources.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

On Jul 25, 1:50 pm, Pat wrote:
First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Dial down your flash and bounce it off the ceiling, but consider
getting something a red, like red or yellow cellophane, and putting it
over your flash to put out a warmer light. You're on a budget so
you'll have to experiment a bit.

Use your star filter if you have one.

Use your tripod or monopod and get down to 1/30th to get a bit more
light.

Well done Pat - I was browsing down to see if anyone suggested gels or
cellophane on the flash. I've had some success with this idea (using
orange/yellow cellophane, never tried red), but you'll need to use the
flash with care (ie not much or it will look faked) and bounced -
depending on what is available. If you can get close to the natural
tungsten/candle colour, then it can work. But practice first!

I disagree with John here - balancing the flash colour *is* still
worthwhile when shooting raw. It isn't an overall colour cast that is
the problem, it is the colour *mix* - if you don't, different *areas*
will be getting different casts, and RAW doesn't help there unless you
are going to mask them out and deal with them separately -yeuch! The
fewer differently balanced light sources you have, the better.

"Paul Furman" wrote in message et...

I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at
a few tables. I've agreed to do it but warned them that's really extraordinary shooting conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's
too long for most cases on crop frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at 28mm & 35mm and a 20mm f/2.8 AF though that starts
getting so wide it distorts the people at the edges. Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)
[...]
--
Paul Furman Photography

I used to shoot often large groups of people in crowded rooms by assembling
them in one spot (no careful arranging necessary - just make sure all faces
are visible and the group ends are brought in far enough), with a seated row
in the front if necessary, with a 28mm or 35mm equivalent FL lens, up two
steps on a step ladder, with two on-camera flashes (one pointed *slightly* up,
to shade off the lower foreground [Nikon flashes work well for this, with soft
edge coverage roll-off], and the other pointed at the ceiling), with a low enough
shutter speed and wide enough aperture used to catch some ambient lighting
(the color differences don't hurt in this kind of shot - they add interest without
messing up overall color balance). Fix up the result the best you can for what
you want and deliver it on a CD along with the invoice (BTW, take at least 4
photos in fairly rapid succession - you may need to substitute heads to lose
closed eyes or bad expressions in the best overall image). Done.
--
David Ruether

http://www.donferrario.com/ruether
(For some laughs, see www.donferrario.com/ruether/menu.htm)

On 2007-07-24 10:42:05 -0700, Paul Furman said:

I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which
will be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few
tables. I've agreed to do it but warned them that's really
extraordinary shooting conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's too
long for most cases on crop frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at
28mm & 35mm and a 20mm f/2.8 AF though that starts getting so wide it
distorts the people at the edges. Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)

I suggested maybe turn on the lights for a few more formal group shots,
they don't seem to be planning to do any big prints, just wanting the
digital files for web or probably a small print in a corporate
newsletter or some such.

Then who cares about the quality? Pump up the ISO and take a very
grainy picture. That is the effect they want, anyway. And take a couple
with the fish eye. You might be surprised at how much people like it.

I would not worry much about edge distortion. You can correct some
distortion in Photoshop or just leave it.

As for candids, you really need an external flash, or the restaurant
lighting is going to make everybody look like Boris Karloff.

.


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
et...

I've been asked to photograph a company retirement party (paid) which will
be about 20 people in a restaurant under candlelight at a few tables. I've
agreed to do it but warned them that's really extraordinary shooting
conditions. I have a 50mm f/1.2 but that's too long for most cases on crop
frame D200, otherwise I have f/2 lenses at 28mm & 35mm and a 20mm f/2.8 AF
though that starts getting so wide it distorts the people at the edges.
Even a 10.5mm f/2.8 fisheye :-)

I've done a few candle lit company meals (unpaid!) and have used my 50/1.4
AFD, and got pretty good results at ISO 1600 with no flash. I have only
really done candid type shots, but a lot of people seem to think this is
better than formal pictures which don't interest me much (unpaid remember!).
There often tends to be some very low lighting as well as the candles, which
seems to help a bit. The 50/1.2 is manual focus, so I'm not sure how easy
it would be to focus in such low light, as I've tended to use AF mode, even
though it will pick the wrong focus sometimes, but the key is to take loads
of shots, which is fine without flash as people won't notice you much.

cheers adrian www.boliston.co.uk

John McWilliams wrote:
Pat wrote:

First off, be careful when you white balance. You don't want your
whites to be white. You want it to be very warm and red.

Nah, don't bother with WB other than to put it on auto, as you're
shooting RAW.

I've found that to be less than true.

Good white balance while shooting works better; even if you can change
it in the raw converter.