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#1
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question for Pat Gainer
Pat,
I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry |
#2
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Larry, I'm not Pat, but I've chatted recently with him about this very topic, and tried it a couple of years ago. I got bad results, like you (in my case it was completely blank film). For a divided developer to work, you need efficient take-up of developing agents into the emulsion in the first bath, followed by activation of those agents in the second. I think that sulfite plays a big role in the first process and that it is the lack of sulfite in Pat's developer that makes it unsuitable for straight conversion to a two-bath developer. I've meant to (but haven't yet got around to) adding a couple of teaspoons of sulfite to the first bath to see if it improves matters at all. Another idea might be to use a very warm first bath to promote take-up of the soup, but this would likely cause other problems as well. Jordan LR Kalajainen wrote: Pat, I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry |
#3
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LR Kalajainen wrote in message ...
Pat, I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). Why? Divided development is tricky at best, and works best with metol. I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry |
#4
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LR Kalajainen wrote in message ...
Pat, I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). Why? Divided development is tricky at best, and works best with metol. I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry |
#5
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LR Kalajainen wrote
I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Two or three thoughts: nothing will preserve V-C in an alkaline solution, a lot of surface area, not much V-C. Based on my quantitative work with metol and assuming 1/10th the amount of phenidone will do as well, I suggest .025gr in 250ml of water. That is for one 8x10. Use varying amounts of V-C and test. Mix just prior to use; of course one-shot. Dan |
#6
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Jordan Wosnick wrote:
Larry, I'm not Pat, but I've chatted recently with him about this very topic, and tried it a couple of years ago. I got bad results, like you (in my case it was completely blank film). For a divided developer to work, you need efficient take-up of developing agents into the emulsion in the first bath, followed by activation of those agents in the second. I think that sulfite plays a big role in the first process and that it is the lack of sulfite in Pat's developer that makes it unsuitable for straight conversion to a two-bath developer. I've meant to (but haven't yet got around to) adding a couple of teaspoons of sulfite to the first bath to see if it improves matters at all. Another idea might be to use a very warm first bath to promote take-up of the soup, but this would likely cause other problems as well. Jordan LR Kalajainen wrote: Pat, I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry Thanks, Jordan, This may be the clue I need. I used to use a divided developer (Phenidone based) for Ciba/Ilfochromes, and as I recall, it did have some sulfite in it, but no Hydroquinone in order to control contrast with Cibas. |
#7
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Uranium Committee wrote:
LR Kalajainen wrote in message ... Pat, I've been experimenting a bit trying to concoct a good Phenidone/Vitamin C paper developer that I can use with my divided development technique (all the carbonate in Bath B). Why? Divided development is tricky at best, and works best with metol. I'm not having much luck-- what I get is very low contrast results. Even when I add in some Hydroquinone, the situation improves somewhat, but the results are still pretty flat. Can you suggest a formula? I tried making the Bath A with similar proportions to the film developer I use regularly, but tripling the amounts of Phenidone and Vitamin C to make a stronger concentration. I kept the proportions of one to the other the same as the film developer. Larry First, the why. Because Phenidone/Vit C is less toxic than Metol, and since I use it for film, I thought perhaps I could try it with paper. Second, I don't find divided development tricky at all. My regular Metol-based formula has worked flawlessly for years. In fact, it's just the opposite of tricky--absolutely reliable and predictable with almost no variation between one print and another. Which is why I have stuck with it for so long. I used to use a Phenidone-based divided developer (also with good results) with Cibachrome/Ilfochromes as a method of contrast control, but without Hydroquinone. It did, however, have sulfite, and Jordan's reply may be the clue I'm looking for. I was trying to leave out the sulfite as I do with my film developer. |
#8
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"LR Kalajainen" wrote in message
... I used to use a Phenidone-based divided developer (also with good results) with Cibachrome/Ilfochromes as a method of contrast control, but without Hydroquinone. It did, however, have sulfite, and Jordan's reply may be the clue I'm looking for. I was trying to leave out the sulfite as I do with my film developer. Can you publish the formula of the developer you use for Ilfochrome ? I presume you still use the Ilford bleach ? Thanks, -- Claudio Bonavolta http://www.bonavolta.ch |
#9
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Claudio Bonavolta wrote:
"LR Kalajainen" wrote in message ... I used to use a Phenidone-based divided developer (also with good results) with Cibachrome/Ilfochromes as a method of contrast control, but without Hydroquinone. It did, however, have sulfite, and Jordan's reply may be the clue I'm looking for. I was trying to leave out the sulfite as I do with my film developer. Can you publish the formula of the developer you use for Ilfochrome ? I presume you still use the Ilford bleach ? Thanks, I'll be happy to publish the formulas. I'll have to dig them out whereever they're hiding in my darkroom. I haven't done any Ilfos for several years now. When I get back later today, I'll do that. Larry |
#10
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"LR Kalajainen" wrote in message
... Can you publish the formula of the developer you use for Ilfochrome ? I presume you still use the Ilford bleach ? Thanks, I'll be happy to publish the formulas. I'll have to dig them out whereever they're hiding in my darkroom. I haven't done any Ilfos for several years now. When I get back later today, I'll do that. Larry Thanks Larry, there is no urgency. Regards, -- Claudio Bonavolta http://www.bonavolta.ch |
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