enlarger question

John wrote:
Tom Phillips wrote:

You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
without consent and suspending habeas corpus?

You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

Typical Liberal bull****. In the Liberal minset, those who vote the
other way are stupid or brain-washed.

I beg to differ.



JD

John wrote:
Tom Phillips wrote:

You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
without consent and suspending habeas corpus?

You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?

No more than the people that voted him/them in are intelligent.

Typical Liberal bull****. In the Liberal mind-set, those who vote the
other way are stupid or brain-washed.

I beg to differ.



JD

You know, we probably agree more than you think.
But this trolling attitude is hard to work with, whether in agreement
or disagreement.

Collin

John wrote:
: Frank Pittel wrote:

: Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: is not now and never has been a democracy.

: That's my point. I'd like to live in a true democracy.

Not me. I would hate to live in a country in which every voting citizen was
voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
years.
--




-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

Tom Phillips wrote:


: Frank Pittel wrote:
:
: Tom Phillips wrote:
:
: : John wrote:
: :
: : David Nebenzahl wrote:
: : John spake thus:
: :
: : Creeker wrote:
: :
: : Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the
: : peopel get lazy and selfish.
: :
: : Could someone point me to a Democratic government ? I don't remember
: : ever seeing one.
: :
: : Do you mean democratic or Democratic?
: :
: : I'd be happy to have both ! Someone in office again with some fiscal
: : responsibility would be a good start.
: :
: : Note that to the best of my knowledge the last truly democratic
: : government existed in Athens.
:
: : You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
: : While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
: : by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
: : without consent and suspending habeas corpus?
:
: : You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
:
: Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: is not now and never has been a democracy.

: I think that's the point. Even Lincoln suspended habeas
: corpus and had reporteers jailed who criticized his
: war strategy. I don't approve, but it depends on one's
: definition of democracy. We've have a democratic
: republic, as opposed to a pure democracy. One has
: to remember the Constitution was set up by and large
: as a compromise between the New England town meeting
: style of government and the aristocratic Southern
: ruling class who were afraid of true democracy.

More likely the founding fathers looked to the ancient Greek and Roman
systems of government and realized that in a country of any significant
size (either geographic and population) a true democracy would be unworkable.

The closest to a workable democratic system is and was a republic in which the
representatives were democratically elected.
--




-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

In article ,
Frank Pittel wrote:

John wrote:
: Frank Pittel wrote:

: Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: is not now and never has been a democracy.

: That's my point. I'd like to live in a true democracy.

Not me. I would hate to live in a country in which every voting citizen was
voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
years.

That would depend on how many people lived in the country,...
In the country of Blank there is little discussion, and most everything
is agreed upon fairly quickly.


--
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

greg_____photo(dot)com

Tom Phillips wrote:


: John wrote:
:
: G- Blank wrote:
:
:
: You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
:
: As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
: adm, but the media has really played this up. If anyone believes
: the government has not done this kind of stuff prior they are nuts.
:
: I would say "willfully ignorant". But I must say that I don't think the
: Democrats are as guilty of these abuses as the Republicans.


: The current spying is unprecedented in it's unbridled
: nature, however, due to the Patriot Act. The republican
: party IMO is dead, since it no longer represents or
: offers candidates who abhor big government or government
: abuses. Rather than conservative, it a party of special
: interests...

To me the Republican party is irrelevant. I am a conservative and will vote
for the most conservative candidate running in a given election. For the record
I don't believe that Bush is a conservative and I didn't vote for him in the 2000
primary. My vote went to the only true conservative running. Unfortunately there are
far to many non-conservatives in the Republican party.
--




-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you

Frank Pittel wrote:

Tom Phillips wrote:

: John wrote:
:
: G- Blank wrote:
:
:
: You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
:
: As you know I am not a ardent supporter of the current
: adm, but the media has really played this up. If anyone believes
: the government has not done this kind of stuff prior they are nuts.
:
: I would say "willfully ignorant". But I must say that I don't think the
: Democrats are as guilty of these abuses as the Republicans.

: The current spying is unprecedented in it's unbridled
: nature, however, due to the Patriot Act. The republican
: party IMO is dead, since it no longer represents or
: offers candidates who abhor big government or government
: abuses. Rather than conservative, it a party of special
: interests...

To me the Republican party is irrelevant. I am a conservative and will vote
for the most conservative candidate running in a given election. For the record
I don't believe that Bush is a conservative and I didn't vote for him in the 2000
primary. My vote went to the only true conservative running. Unfortunately there are
far to many non-conservatives in the Republican party.

A true U.S. conservative is one who espouses the
liberties illuminated in the Bill of Rights and
their legitimate expansion.

otherwise they're fascist, not conservative...

Frank Pittel wrote:

Tom Phillips wrote:

: Frank Pittel wrote:
:
: Tom Phillips wrote:
:
: : John wrote:
: :
: : David Nebenzahl wrote:
: : John spake thus:
: :
: : Creeker wrote:
: :
: : Only thing I would disagree with is a Democracy gets corrupt when the
: : peopel get lazy and selfish.
: :
: : Could someone point me to a Democratic government ? I don't remember
: : ever seeing one.
: :
: : Do you mean democratic or Democratic?
: :
: : I'd be happy to have both ! Someone in office again with some fiscal
: : responsibility would be a good start.
: :
: : Note that to the best of my knowledge the last truly democratic
: : government existed in Athens.
:
: : You mean we aren't creating a real democracy in Iraq?
: : While here at home a secret NSC government empowered
: : by dubya's imperial presidency is spying on Americans
: : without consent and suspending habeas corpus?
:
: : You mean to tell me the neocons aren't democratic...?
:
: Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: is not now and never has been a democracy.

: I think that's the point. Even Lincoln suspended habeas
: corpus and had reporteers jailed who criticized his
: war strategy. I don't approve, but it depends on one's
: definition of democracy. We've have a democratic
: republic, as opposed to a pure democracy. One has
: to remember the Constitution was set up by and large
: as a compromise between the New England town meeting
: style of government and the aristocratic Southern
: ruling class who were afraid of true democracy.

More likely the founding fathers looked to the ancient Greek and Roman
systems of government and realized that in a country of any significant
size (either geographic and population) a true democracy would be unworkable.

Nope. One of the major architects of the Constitution
(Franklin) based his view of American government on the
Iroquois confederacy, a purley native American government.
The fact is, the Constitution is a political compromise
between a aristocratic monarchy and a democracy.

The Romans had no real democracy or republic. They only
paid lip service to either...the "Greeks" were in reality
a number of independent city states, not a unified
democracy and were soon over taken by despotism. A lesson,
I'd say, warning us against worshiping the imperial US
presidency...

The closest to a workable democratic system is and was a republic in which the
representatives were democratically elected.

It is the closest, federally speaking. We generally
have greater demmocracy on the local level, of which
I wholeheartedly approve.

Frank Pittel wrote:

John wrote:
: Frank Pittel wrote:

: Before this thread goes to far off into lala land keep in mind that the US
: is not now and never has been a democracy.

: That's my point. I'd like to live in a true democracy.

Not me. I would hate to live in a country in which every voting citizen was
voting on every issue that came up. The debate/discussion part would take
years.

Better than debating/discussing for years
_after_ some elected idiot under our so-called
republican system has made the wrong decision
(usually based on special interest money as
Abramoff --spelling? -- is poignantly witness)
and ruined the lives of millions...

Nothing like real democracy. Someone tell W and
Alito.