GPS

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

Or he could buy a GPS Rx with USB.


where? How much? Models?
I checked throughly about this time last year and found ONLY a model
intended for connection to a particular model of pocket computer, and
the interface wasn't USB.


http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/

very nice, and a definite step in the right direction. But a bit out of
my price range. Maybe another year will do it. For now the old
Magellan 315 will have to do.

Dave Head wrote:

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:33:24 -0000, Jeremy Nixon wrote:


Prometheus wrote:


N.B. A GPS receiver without a serial port is not NEMA compliant, a
laptop without a serial port is not NEMA compliant.

Why would I care about NEMA compliance? I just want it to work.


'Cuz the standards, such as the NEMA standard, is what makes things work
together. Wanna do GPS? Then you want a unit that is NEMA compliant.

ONLY if I want to connect to something industrial/commercial. It
wouldn't matter WHAT protocol was used as long as the software on the
computer matched.
n


If I wanted to use a laptop with a GPS receiver I would buy one that has
a serial port, in fact I would want a serial port anyway.

People don't buy laptops to work with GPS receivers; quite the opposite.


Wrong. I want my computer to work with my Garmin GPS III, and any subsequent
GPS I may buy if this one dies or gets stolen. I'm not real happy with the
choices in laptops that I've seen - now I'll have to carry a stupid RS-232
adapter around in the data case as well as all the other junk.

Dave Head

Ron Hunter writes:

Bruce Murphy wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:

Except that Ethernet/USB connectors are standard, no buying an adapter
to make it fit the connector on the equipment, and require no tools to
attach it.
It is a great deal more difficult to write a driver for the
operating
system of your choice to make a USB device work usefully (and thus you
end up beholden to your GPS provider for updates to track your OS).
In comparison, you can connect any standard-serial-interface GPS
device to something that is expecting it, and software support for
something that doesn't is relatively trivial.
Your comment about the mapping data transfer is completely spurious
becuase if you want an all-signin and all-dancing GPS that talks USB
map transfers to your computer, bully for you. If that GPS doesn't
*also* have a serial port that can deliver data to a device that
doesn't need to talk the hugely complex USB protocols, then that GPS
has been crippled.
And the reason it has been crippled is to appeal to the sort of
people
who can't understand why a standard and easy-to-interface
communication standard is a good idea.
B

Just how many people do you think will ever need to send data to some
kind of commercial/industrial datagethering device with their PERSONAL
GPS?

I would. Virtually everyone I know who would buy a GPS would want to
plug it into various interesting devices, and serial would be by far
the easiest way.

Perhaps my perspective is wildly different to yours.

If you run a fleet of fishing boats, have a fleet of trucks, or
are tracking you taxi cab fleet, then you will buy an INDUSTRIAL GPS,
and if you want use a 300bps connection or a pair of paper cups with a
string, be my guest. That is NOT what a consumer will EVER do with a
GPS. If I want to track my meanderings on vacation on my mapping
program, then I might want to upload my GPS data back to the computer,
but I don't want to have to wait hours while it sends the megabytes of
data via the slowest form of communication port on the computer.

Then find a GPS with that feature as well. What you don't want is a
crippled consumer GPS that /only/ has such a crap interface that
requirees drivers and specific OS support and god knows what else.

You are seeing the issue from a completely different viewpoint.

That's true, the sensible one.

B

In article , Ron Hunter
writes
Prometheus wrote:
In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes


Fine, up the price $20 I will pay!

A lot of people will not.


That's why companies make more than one model of a device.
Indeed, the standard model with the standard serial interface and
the restricted model with only USB.

I Googled for a while this morning and STILL found that there are no
models with USB intended for data transfer with the computer, only
special units that connect via USB to laptops/palmtops for GPS
functions. Will check for flash card units later, but I have little
hope that these are not also fantasies of the dedicated serial
interface people who want to continue to drive nails with a screwdriver.

Didn't try hard did you?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/
--
Ian G8ILZ

In article , Ron Hunter
writes
Prometheus wrote:
In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes


Fine, up the price $20 I will pay!

A lot of people will not.


That's why companies make more than one model of a device.
Indeed, the standard model with the standard serial interface and
the restricted model with only USB.

I Googled for a while this morning and STILL found that there are no
models with USB intended for data transfer with the computer, only
special units that connect via USB to laptops/palmtops for GPS
functions. Will check for flash card units later, but I have little
hope that these are not also fantasies of the dedicated serial
interface people who want to continue to drive nails with a screwdriver.

Didn't try hard did you?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/
--
Ian G8ILZ

In article , Ron Hunter
writes
Prometheus wrote:
In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes


Fine, up the price $20 I will pay!

A lot of people will not.


That's why companies make more than one model of a device.
Indeed, the standard model with the standard serial interface and
the restricted model with only USB.

I Googled for a while this morning and STILL found that there are no
models with USB intended for data transfer with the computer, only
special units that connect via USB to laptops/palmtops for GPS
functions. Will check for flash card units later, but I have little
hope that these are not also fantasies of the dedicated serial
interface people who want to continue to drive nails with a screwdriver.

Didn't try hard did you?

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/
--
Ian G8ILZ

In article , Ron Hunter
writes
Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

Or he could buy a GPS Rx with USB.


where? How much? Models?
I checked throughly about this time last year and found ONLY a model
intended for connection to a particular model of pocket computer, and
the interface wasn't USB.
http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/

very nice, and a definite step in the right direction. But a bit out
of my price range. Maybe another year will do it. For now the old
Magellan 315 will have to do.

I thought you were willing to pay the cost of developing and fabricating
a new chip set with USB; I never did say your "$20" increase in retail
price was realistic for recouping the required investment entailed.
--
Ian G8ILZ

Bruce Murphy wrote:

Ron Hunter writes:


Bruce Murphy wrote:


Ron Hunter writes:


Except that Ethernet/USB connectors are standard, no buying an adapter
to make it fit the connector on the equipment, and require no tools to
attach it.

It is a great deal more difficult to write a driver for the
operating
system of your choice to make a USB device work usefully (and thus you
end up beholden to your GPS provider for updates to track your OS).
In comparison, you can connect any standard-serial-interface GPS
device to something that is expecting it, and software support for
something that doesn't is relatively trivial.
Your comment about the mapping data transfer is completely spurious
becuase if you want an all-signin and all-dancing GPS that talks USB
map transfers to your computer, bully for you. If that GPS doesn't
*also* have a serial port that can deliver data to a device that
doesn't need to talk the hugely complex USB protocols, then that GPS
has been crippled.
And the reason it has been crippled is to appeal to the sort of
people
who can't understand why a standard and easy-to-interface
communication standard is a good idea.
B

Just how many people do you think will ever need to send data to some
kind of commercial/industrial datagethering device with their PERSONAL
GPS?


I would. Virtually everyone I know who would buy a GPS would want to
plug it into various interesting devices, and serial would be by far
the easiest way.

Perhaps my perspective is wildly different to yours.


If you run a fleet of fishing boats, have a fleet of trucks, or
are tracking you taxi cab fleet, then you will buy an INDUSTRIAL GPS,
and if you want use a 300bps connection or a pair of paper cups with a
string, be my guest. That is NOT what a consumer will EVER do with a
GPS. If I want to track my meanderings on vacation on my mapping
program, then I might want to upload my GPS data back to the computer,
but I don't want to have to wait hours while it sends the megabytes of
data via the slowest form of communication port on the computer.


Then find a GPS with that feature as well. What you don't want is a
crippled consumer GPS that /only/ has such a crap interface that
requirees drivers and specific OS support and god knows what else.


You are seeing the issue from a completely different viewpoint.


That's true, the sensible one.

B
Is it sensible to buy a device that has features that I will never use?
Is it sensible to buy a device that lacks features I want? What I
want is a consumer GPS. I don't WANT to connect it to a bunch of
devices in a ship, or track a fleet of cabs. I want to know where I am,
what direction I am going, and how fast. And, I would like to be able
to display that information on a scrolling map.
Do I tell you that because you need something else you aren't sensible?
Do I call your interface 'crap'? An RS232 serial interface just isn't
the appropriate interface for transmission of megabytes of data in the
time a consumer would be willing to allocate to it. USB is.

Thanks to an email from Chris Hartley, I now have a few Garmin models to
check out. They are a bit pricey yet, but have the features I want.
And, yes, they also have serial ports, but I don't have to use them.

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

In article , Ron Hunter
writes

Prometheus wrote:

Or he could buy a GPS Rx with USB.



where? How much? Models?
I checked throughly about this time last year and found ONLY a model
intended for connection to a particular model of pocket computer,
and the interface wasn't USB.

http://www.garmin.com/products/gpsmap276c/


very nice, and a definite step in the right direction. But a bit out
of my price range. Maybe another year will do it. For now the old
Magellan 315 will have to do.


I thought you were willing to pay the cost of developing and fabricating
a new chip set with USB; I never did say your "$20" increase in retail
price was realistic for recouping the required investment entailed.

I think USB chip sets are an 'off the shelf' item. Very little would be
needed to get them in a new product, proof of which is those Garmin models.

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 07:21:41 -0000, Jeremy Nixon
wrote:

No, it will work for them if they decide they want the same thing that
you evidently want. If they want something else, it will not work for
them.

A rather common misconception.
Wanting something other than what's available does not make what's
available not work.
If there were a *need* for something else, then what's avaiable might
not work, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
The problem is that you're insisting that I'm wrong for wanting
something other than the same thing that you want. You're insisting
that you know the only way anyone should ever want or need to use a
GPS receiver. Maybe the manufacturers are listening to you, which
would be a shame.

I think we all knwo that the manufacturers are doing what they do
simply to show the consumers who's boss.
Oh, wait, that doesn't work, either. The market will decide what it
wants; the manufacturers will make what the market says it wants.
That's the path to riches.
IOW, the manufacturers are listening to the market that promises the
most money. If that's not you, well, that's life.

Bill Funk
Change "g" to "a"