Nikon announces new flagship **FILM** SLR – the F6!

Alan Browne wrote:

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I have used a Rollei 6008i with PQS lenses on a couple occasions, and the 1/1000 sync
is noticeable, though not something that get used often. Even 1/500 works quite well,
though anything much less than that is not uch difference. These are high ambient
light fill flash conditions, specific to some photographers and some situations, but I
think still a bit limited usage in the overall scheme of things.

1/1000 sync! Some flashes discharge a good part of their energy
beyond 1 ms at full power, so got to watch out.


Yeah, it takes a bit of thought, though it is definitely nice to have that option. I should
also mention that not all lenses that go on the Rollei 6000 system do 1/1000, and that many
are only 1/500 . . . still very useful.



My point was really about them dropping sync from 1/300 to 1/250
... seems odd that if they've gone to a lighter shutter system
(as Minolta did) that they didn't at least retain the 1/300 sync.


If you set your camera to 1/300 and did a fill flash shot, then set the camera to
1/250, and did a fill flash shot, could you tell much difference in the final images?
How often would that matter? More marketing department fluff?

In most cases not at all. With very high ambient and a low flash
power though, movement would record (and no I've never pushed
this to see it, but obviously the right conditions will reveal
it). With the larger film area of MF, slight movement would be
more visible on the neg/pos than with 35mm for the same amount of
subject movement.

Sure, the larger film area on medium format gives one more room to find slight differences.
I think if someone anticipated doing quite a few shots with fill flash, or unusual lighting
combinations, then some type of leaf shutter camera would make a good choice.



I always think of the 1/500 of leaf shutters as a standard that
35mm generally falls short of. 1/250 .. 1/300 is damned good of
course.

Another reason why I got a Yashica Electro GT (actually two, but who's counting). While I
am stuck to one fixed lens, it is one way to get that 1/500 in 35 mm. One problem is that
the camera is aperture priority, so it is tough to tell if the shutter is operating at
1/500, or slightly slower. Medium format is much better for this stuff.


As my other reply to someone else said, there is little doubt
that new/used F5's will be available for quite a while for the
few who really need changeable VF's.


The funniest aspect I found recently about F5 bodies is that the Kodak DCS models
based on those now sell for less than a used F5 of similar vintage. I think the Kodak
bodies were four, or five (or more) times more expensive when new.

Did anyone notice that the viewfinder is extended backwards on the F6? There is still
a possibility of a removable back, though I think it is more likely to be a third
party product.

Interseting point. The F6 was to be a film/digi hybrid when
rumours first started up many months ago... and that might have
set the VF where it is. If one had access to an F6 and could
look for additional contacts inside that would go to such a back
then a Nikon or 3rd party system may still be in the works... but
I think to fuel sales they would have to announce it now. That
they haven't may be signs that this will remain a film-only body.

Well, I am not suggesting that there is something . . . . . ;-) Not everything that
goes through development actually does get released. Anyway, take a look at the delays
getting the Imacon back going for the R8/R9, and you should have some idea of the technical
challenges. Besides, if something was mentioned now, it could detract from sales of the
newest Nikon direct digital SLR. Remember that Nikon usually only announces a product when
it is ready to ship, though there have been some exceptions.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio
http://www.allgstudio.com/gallery.html Updated!

Gordon Moat wrote:


Well, I am not suggesting that there is something . . . . . ;-) Not everything that
goes through development actually does get released. Anyway, take a look at the delays
getting the Imacon back going for the R8/R9, and you should have some idea of the technical
challenges. Besides, if something was mentioned now, it could detract from sales of the
newest Nikon direct digital SLR. Remember that Nikon usually only announces a product when
it is ready to ship, though there have been some exceptions.

Good point. Many companies end up in a state where two product
lines begin to cross and threaten each other in the marketplace.
Managing this is not as easy as many would think. The managers
of the D2 line would probably not be happy if the F6 was sold as
a "future digi-back" body as that would offer to many open
possibilities, threatening the D2H and newer D2X ... but after
the D2x peaks then an F6 back appearing would be welcome for
everyone ... of course such a back would probably start modestly,
somewhere around 4 to 6 Mpix and 1.5 crop, but with great growth
potential.

The above is pure speculation of course.

Very few people 'round here have reported owning R8/R9's so I
can't see there being a huge population of such... although their
desire to have such capability is probably no less than mine for
Minolta to get off the pot with the D7 and more interestingly and
importantly a higher end version, hopefully a lower crop if not
36x24 ... as well as correcting other shortcomings of the D7 ...
although the A-S is a great thing to be sure.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Gordon Moat wrote:


Well, I am not suggesting that there is something . . . . . ;-) Not everything that
goes through development actually does get released. Anyway, take a look at the delays
getting the Imacon back going for the R8/R9, and you should have some idea of the technical
challenges. Besides, if something was mentioned now, it could detract from sales of the
newest Nikon direct digital SLR. Remember that Nikon usually only announces a product when
it is ready to ship, though there have been some exceptions.

Good point. Many companies end up in a state where two product
lines begin to cross and threaten each other in the marketplace.
Managing this is not as easy as many would think. The managers
of the D2 line would probably not be happy if the F6 was sold as
a "future digi-back" body as that would offer to many open
possibilities, threatening the D2H and newer D2X ... but after
the D2x peaks then an F6 back appearing would be welcome for
everyone ... of course such a back would probably start modestly,
somewhere around 4 to 6 Mpix and 1.5 crop, but with great growth
potential.

The above is pure speculation of course.

Very few people 'round here have reported owning R8/R9's so I
can't see there being a huge population of such... although their
desire to have such capability is probably no less than mine for
Minolta to get off the pot with the D7 and more interestingly and
importantly a higher end version, hopefully a lower crop if not
36x24 ... as well as correcting other shortcomings of the D7 ...
although the A-S is a great thing to be sure.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

Gordon Moat wrote:


Well, I am not suggesting that there is something . . . . . ;-) Not everything that
goes through development actually does get released. Anyway, take a look at the delays
getting the Imacon back going for the R8/R9, and you should have some idea of the technical
challenges. Besides, if something was mentioned now, it could detract from sales of the
newest Nikon direct digital SLR. Remember that Nikon usually only announces a product when
it is ready to ship, though there have been some exceptions.

Good point. Many companies end up in a state where two product
lines begin to cross and threaten each other in the marketplace.
Managing this is not as easy as many would think. The managers
of the D2 line would probably not be happy if the F6 was sold as
a "future digi-back" body as that would offer to many open
possibilities, threatening the D2H and newer D2X ... but after
the D2x peaks then an F6 back appearing would be welcome for
everyone ... of course such a back would probably start modestly,
somewhere around 4 to 6 Mpix and 1.5 crop, but with great growth
potential.

The above is pure speculation of course.

Very few people 'round here have reported owning R8/R9's so I
can't see there being a huge population of such... although their
desire to have such capability is probably no less than mine for
Minolta to get off the pot with the D7 and more interestingly and
importantly a higher end version, hopefully a lower crop if not
36x24 ... as well as correcting other shortcomings of the D7 ...
although the A-S is a great thing to be sure.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- rec.photo.equipment.35mm user resource:
-- http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.--

In article , Alan Browne wrote:
Good point. Many companies end up in a state where two product
lines begin to cross and threaten each other in the marketplace.
Managing this is not as easy as many would think. The managers
of the D2 line would probably not be happy if the F6 was sold as
a "future digi-back" body as that would offer to many open
possibilities, threatening the D2H and newer D2X ... but after
the D2x peaks then an F6 back appearing would be welcome for
everyone ... of course such a back would probably start modestly,
somewhere around 4 to 6 Mpix and 1.5 crop, but with great growth
potential.


That's what I think they did with the F6. It's a FILM D2x. It has the
"look and feel" of a D2x and uses many of the same parts. The idea being
if you want to shoot digital today, you pick up a D2x. If you want to
shoot film you pick up an F6. Same accessories except the D2x uses memory
cards and the F6 uses film.

Nice idea for a pro, you can but one set of "stuff" and different bodies
as you need them.

Now the $64,000 question. Which will Nikon release? A full frame Digital
camera or a focusing screen for the F6 the crops off the area the digital
only lenses cover?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel

IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838

In article , Alan Browne wrote:
Good point. Many companies end up in a state where two product
lines begin to cross and threaten each other in the marketplace.
Managing this is not as easy as many would think. The managers
of the D2 line would probably not be happy if the F6 was sold as
a "future digi-back" body as that would offer to many open
possibilities, threatening the D2H and newer D2X ... but after
the D2x peaks then an F6 back appearing would be welcome for
everyone ... of course such a back would probably start modestly,
somewhere around 4 to 6 Mpix and 1.5 crop, but with great growth
potential.


That's what I think they did with the F6. It's a FILM D2x. It has the
"look and feel" of a D2x and uses many of the same parts. The idea being
if you want to shoot digital today, you pick up a D2x. If you want to
shoot film you pick up an F6. Same accessories except the D2x uses memory
cards and the F6 uses film.

Nice idea for a pro, you can but one set of "stuff" and different bodies
as you need them.

Now the $64,000 question. Which will Nikon release? A full frame Digital
camera or a focusing screen for the F6 the crops off the area the digital
only lenses cover?

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, C.T.O. GW&T Ltd., Jerusalem Israel

IL Voice: 972-544-608-069 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838

Alan Browne wrote:
Sander Vesik wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

other bells and whistles, like the built in databack, inter-volvo-meter,
etc. Then there's the full metal body, including the back, beter meter,
better autofocus, mirror lockup, faster motordrive, shutter monitor, and a

Shutter monitor? WTF is that? Nikon shutters are extremely
reliable in this class ... not something of value to monitor it, IMO.


Something that will tell you when you need need to go to
a Nikon service center because your shutter just fired at
the wrong speed compared to what it was supposed to.

Shoot some slide film. You'll know if it needs to go.

This doesn't help you with gradual failure.

[snip]


I've shot shaddowgraphs of the sun at 1/12,000, f/22 and a 4xND
in place on ISO 100... but certainly not something I'd do every

Ah. Ok. Have you tried projecting the sun through a telescope
on a white screen? (*NEVER* look at the sun. esp not through a
telescope).

day... the very fast Minolta shutter has its real benefit in the
1/300 sync speed. How they got there .... very light, stiff,
shutter blades... so it seems a bit odd to me that the sycn speed
of the F6 is less than on the F5.... (it really doesn't matter
*that* much either.

The F6 certainly has a F200-ish taste to itself.


Cheers,
Alan

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Alan Browne wrote:
Sander Vesik wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

other bells and whistles, like the built in databack, inter-volvo-meter,
etc. Then there's the full metal body, including the back, beter meter,
better autofocus, mirror lockup, faster motordrive, shutter monitor, and a

Shutter monitor? WTF is that? Nikon shutters are extremely
reliable in this class ... not something of value to monitor it, IMO.


Something that will tell you when you need need to go to
a Nikon service center because your shutter just fired at
the wrong speed compared to what it was supposed to.

Shoot some slide film. You'll know if it needs to go.

This doesn't help you with gradual failure.

[snip]


I've shot shaddowgraphs of the sun at 1/12,000, f/22 and a 4xND
in place on ISO 100... but certainly not something I'd do every

Ah. Ok. Have you tried projecting the sun through a telescope
on a white screen? (*NEVER* look at the sun. esp not through a
telescope).

day... the very fast Minolta shutter has its real benefit in the
1/300 sync speed. How they got there .... very light, stiff,
shutter blades... so it seems a bit odd to me that the sycn speed
of the F6 is less than on the F5.... (it really doesn't matter
*that* much either.

The F6 certainly has a F200-ish taste to itself.


Cheers,
Alan

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

Alan Browne wrote:
Sander Vesik wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

other bells and whistles, like the built in databack, inter-volvo-meter,
etc. Then there's the full metal body, including the back, beter meter,
better autofocus, mirror lockup, faster motordrive, shutter monitor, and a

Shutter monitor? WTF is that? Nikon shutters are extremely
reliable in this class ... not something of value to monitor it, IMO.


Something that will tell you when you need need to go to
a Nikon service center because your shutter just fired at
the wrong speed compared to what it was supposed to.

Shoot some slide film. You'll know if it needs to go.

This doesn't help you with gradual failure.

[snip]


I've shot shaddowgraphs of the sun at 1/12,000, f/22 and a 4xND
in place on ISO 100... but certainly not something I'd do every

Ah. Ok. Have you tried projecting the sun through a telescope
on a white screen? (*NEVER* look at the sun. esp not through a
telescope).

day... the very fast Minolta shutter has its real benefit in the
1/300 sync speed. How they got there .... very light, stiff,
shutter blades... so it seems a bit odd to me that the sycn speed
of the F6 is less than on the F5.... (it really doesn't matter
*that* much either.

The F6 certainly has a F200-ish taste to itself.


Cheers,
Alan

--
Sander

+++ Out of cheese error +++

"Alan Browne" wrote in message
...
snip

Very few people 'round here have reported owning R8/R9's so I
can't see there being a huge population of such... although their
desire to have such capability is probably no less than mine for
Minolta to get off the pot with the D7

No, following the expression you invoke, "either **** or get off the pot",
you don't really want Minolta to get off the pot, you want them to ****,
which, by analogy, would make the D7 a piece of ****...

Don't look at me, you chose the expression!
;-)

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com