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#251
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 23:00:09 -0400, nospam
wrote: In article , Eric Stevens wrote: Let's put it this way... You're interested in Adobe photo-editing products. You have specific questions about what they do and how they work together (or not), so you can make an intelligent buying decision. You go to the Adobe site, expecting clear answers to your questions. Will you find them? I say you won't. I've never had a problem finding an answer to any question about product functionality. Why don't you, instead of whining incessantly, pose your questions and see how long it takes for someone to post you links to the answers on the adobe site? I suspect your search-fu is weak young grasshopper. You seem to be missing the point in much the same way as many other people. William Sommerwerck described the problem succinctly in two successive articles: --------------------------------------------------------------- When he first touched on the subject he wrote: "I was amazed at how it failed to explain exactly what each of its products did (or didn't) do, and why you might purchase it (or not).." ... and in his next article he expanded his point by writing: "And what of those who haven't used them? There are hundreds of new potential customers every day who are ignorant of such things. What do you do...ignore them? For example... What is the relationship between Lightroom and Photoshop? Lightroom apparently does some things Photoshop also does. Why would I use one and not the other? Or both? How do these products interact (or not). What are the advantages and tradeoffs? One of the best sales tools is to clearly explain what your product can and can't do, and how its features work with the features of other products in your line. The goal is to get a "I like that -- I'll buy it!" reaction." I don't think he was requesting anything other than a comprehensive description of anything but the general capabilities of and the relationships between the components of the product range. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I came in to say that I was looking for much the same information several years ago and couldn't find it either. This information cannot be obtained as an answer to a single simple question. Nor should each individual would-be customer have to carry out extensive research to acquaint themselves with a range of Adobe products so they can assemble the information for themselves. so what do you suggest that they do? any potential customer who is not familiar with a product line will have to learn about it prior to purchase, regardless of what it is. We are not talking about a _product_line_. for some people that might be fairly quick, such as a pro who knows what they're looking for, while for others, it might mean doing some research to see which product best fits their needs. -- Regards, Eric Stevens |
#252
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
Eric Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:48:08 -0400, "Neil Gould" wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:22:23 -0400, "Neil Gould" wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: I was prepared to pay the 'ten times higher' price for Photoshop if I could determine that it was necessary for what I wanted to do. The trouble was I couldn't easily determine what Elements could/couldn't do in comparison with Photoshop without making a major research project out of it. I did try: I still have several books on the software tucked away somewhere. But it was all too hard for someone who knew nothing about the products. In the end I bought Photo Paint for less than I would have paid for Elements. Adobe's loss, my gain. Then, you arrived at the right conclusion, not only for yourself, but for others with your level of exposure to such apps, because if PhotoPaint does what you need, PhotoShop is serious overkill. I don't think Photo Shop is overkill for what I want to do. It's just that I couldn't establish that at the time. Based on what I've seen you write, I think you like the idea of PhotoShop, but you don't really have a need for its strengths. For example, how many of your images have been printed in magazines or books? How many clients do you have that want .PSD files? A short answer is 'none' but I might quibble over what is meant by 'books'. However, surely you are not saying that these are these only reason for using Photoshop. I'm saying that these are good reasons for using PhotoShop, and that other apps are as good or better at fitting other workflows. For example, I don't use any version of PhotoShop if I'm preparing images solely for the web. I suspect there are some things that Photoshop can do which I might value purely for my own satisfaction. Even if that is all there is to it, which it isn't, it surely is enough. Your suspicions are based on...? I haven't found anything that PhotoShop can do that other apps that I have or have used can't do, except create good PSD files to pass to agencies who are clients of mine or integrate seamlessly into my other Adobe apps. For me, it's a matter of workflow efficiency, not the feature set of one particular app, and one won't find out about that from reading books or a website. -- best regards, Neil |
#254
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
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#255
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
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#256
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: This information cannot be obtained as an answer to a single simple question. Nor should each individual would-be customer have to carry out extensive research to acquaint themselves with a range of Adobe products so they can assemble the information for themselves. so what do you suggest that they do? any potential customer who is not familiar with a product line will have to learn about it prior to purchase, regardless of what it is. We are not talking about a _product_line_. of course we are talking about a product line. you said 'a range of adobe products' above and you also made a big deal about *comparing* the products in a checklist. sounds like a product line to me. not that it matters, since if there's only one product you will still have to familiarize yourself with the one product. same thing, only a little less work. |
#257
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: Nikon NX2 and Paint Shop Pro does me for now. In that case, whether you realize it or not, Photoshop is gross overkill for your purposes. Yes, it will do everything that you need, but you'd be buried in complexity. I suspect that there are things I am doing or might want to do in the future that might be better done in Photoshop. I will find out when the time comes. and you will be able to do what you want in photoshop elements too. You are not in a position to know. if nx2 & paint shop pro do it for you now, then you don't need the full photoshop. you might think you do, though, but you don't. you are not the target market for the full photoshop. you're not a pro who does this stuff day in and day out. what it offers over elements isn't anything you are likely to ever need. I'm a potential buyer. everyone is a potential buyer. you don't need the full photoshop for the reasons i gave. |
#258
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
In article , Eric Stevens
wrote: photoshop is an *very* popular app and there's *so* much information out there about it that it's scary. it's actually overwhelming how much is out there. Which is why a comprehensive description of the general capabilities and the relationships between the components of the product range are so desirable. That doesn't need a full description of the entire capabilities of each product. as has been explained numerous times, that's available from adobe and many other sources. |
#259
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
Neil Gould wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote: On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 07:48:08 -0400, "Neil Gould" wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:22:23 -0400, "Neil Gould" wrote: Eric Stevens wrote: I was prepared to pay the 'ten times higher' price for Photoshop if I could determine that it was necessary for what I wanted to do. The trouble was I couldn't easily determine what Elements could/couldn't do in comparison with Photoshop without making a major research project out of it. I did try: I still have several books on the software tucked away somewhere. But it was all too hard for someone who knew nothing about the products. In the end I bought Photo Paint for less than I would have paid for Elements. Adobe's loss, my gain. Then, you arrived at the right conclusion, not only for yourself, but for others with your level of exposure to such apps, because if PhotoPaint does what you need, PhotoShop is serious overkill. I don't think Photo Shop is overkill for what I want to do. It's just that I couldn't establish that at the time. Based on what I've seen you write, I think you like the idea of PhotoShop, but you don't really have a need for its strengths. For example, how many of your images have been printed in magazines or books? How many clients do you have that want .PSD files? A short answer is 'none' but I might quibble over what is meant by 'books'. However, surely you are not saying that these are these only reason for using Photoshop. I'm saying that these are good reasons for using PhotoShop, and that other apps are as good or better at fitting other workflows. For example, I don't use any version of PhotoShop if I'm preparing images solely for the web. I suspect there are some things that Photoshop can do which I might value purely for my own satisfaction. Even if that is all there is to it, which it isn't, it surely is enough. Your suspicions are based on...? I haven't found anything that PhotoShop can do that other apps that I have or have used can't do, except create good PSD files to pass to agencies who are clients of mine or integrate seamlessly into my other Adobe apps. For me, it's a matter of workflow efficiency, not the feature set of one particular app, and one won't find out about that from reading books or a website. And if all you want is the interface, then GIMPShop will let you have close to 90+% of that for free. It's the GIMP 2.2 with a Photoshop skin on it. -- Tciao for Now! John. |
#260
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Has your memory card ever worn out?
John Williamson wrote:
Neil Gould wrote: I haven't found anything that PhotoShop can do that other apps that I have or have used can't do, except create good PSD files to pass to agencies who are clients of mine or integrate seamlessly into my other Adobe apps. For me, it's a matter of workflow efficiency, not the feature set of one particular app, and one won't find out about that from reading books or a website. And if all you want is the interface, then GIMPShop will let you have close to 90+% of that for free. It's the GIMP 2.2 with a Photoshop skin on it. Well, I think an app's functionality is more than skin deep... www.gimp.org says: "It's been a long time since we last had an active Windows-based developer. Consequently, GIMP has accumulated a plethora of bugs specific for that operating system. As much as we'd like to provide a smooth user experience for Windows users, we simply do not have the required human resources." 'nuff said. -- best regards, Neil |
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