O/T: Nibbling on an Apple

On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 11:32:48 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

In article 2013080706073955640-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom,
says...

On 2013-08-07 02:18:59 -0700, Eric Stevens said:

On Tue, 06 Aug 2013 23:51:47 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Mine are in albums on my iPad. Is that not a file system?

Exactly - but nospam doesn't seem to realise that.

it's not a file system. it's a database.

The database won't work without a file system.

A database is a file system.

I think before people start talking at cross purposes, somebody needs to
nail down the definition of "file system". To a systems programmer the
file system is the way that files are organized on disk and is generally
part of the operating system.

Some database managers can access the raw disk directly using their own
proprietary file system--Oracle is one example that has this capability.
Most of the ones that are commonly used by individuals work through the
operating system to access the file system though, so in the systems-
programming sense they are not file systems themselves.

When I think of a "file system" I automatically think of it in the
systems-programming sense.

As I've just explained to Savageduck, thats the definition I have
always used.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:24:31 -0400, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

You couldn't find your way round my wife's iPad collection of of
photographs unless there was a file system you could follow.
Otherwise, god knows how many thousands of photographs all in one big
heap.

then she's not taking advantage of all of its functionality.

How can you possibly know that?

because you said she has multiple thousands of photos in one big heap.

Go back and read again. I said that without a file system she has
mutiple photographs in one big heap.

go back and read what i wrote again. the files are only in a big heap
if she puts them in a big heap. she doesn't need file system access to
sort and organize photos.

Of course she does!

It's just that she doesn't use the file system directly: she gets at
it through external software.

you don't know which block a file is on the hard drive, do you? no.

Yes.

bull**** you do.

Sorry, I misread your sentence. I do know 'what' a block is on the
hard drive.

I don't generally know (or care) which block a file is on, on the the
hard drive. I also know there is software available which will tell
me.

the only way you'd know that is if you manually run a utility that maps
it out, and even if you did that, why would you even care?

it's not going to make a task any easier. you don't tell the computer
'give me data at blocks 12345 and 43444'. you tell the computer, you
want to edit a certain photo and *it* figures out what files to access
on the hard drive, which is passed to the disk controller which figures
out which blocks to read.

That's why, right from the beginning, I've been saying the iPad has an
underlying file system and would not operate without one.

and as i said, the blocks a file is on can and does change all the
time. just because a file is on a given block now doesn't mean it's
going to be in the same block later today or next week.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On 2013-08-07 16:48:06 -0700, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:24:27 -0400, nospam
wrote:

these days, people have hundreds of thousands of photos, music, movies,
emails, etc. and trying to manually keep track of all of that is
insanity.

Probably insane to accumulate that much in the first place.

Thank goodness for Lightroom.
I see the discussion has moved to image databases and workflow, I might
as well throw my current workflow into this street fight.
Since getting LR4 I find I have changed from primary use of Bridge and
ACR with occasional use of LR for cataloging, to intensive use of LR4
for cataloging, adjusting and editing.

I import from CF card (& occasionally SDHC) into LR4 and convert to
DNG. The shoots are filed by capture date. I then rename the folder to
add a specific event, or location. So I might have from a three day
trip, 2010-05-18 KC-Sequoia 1, 2010-05-19 KC-Sequoia 2, & 2010-05-20
KC-Sequoia 3.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_276.jpg

Then I make an initial pass through each of those new imports and make
a rudimentary "star" rating and rejection of non-keepers, and flag
those I want to work on immediately.

Once I have decided which shots I am going to work on, I create a
virtual copy(VC) and apply LR adjustments and edits to the virtual
copy. If I want to use the NIK plugins in LR, I work on a copy of the
LR adjusted VC which is saved back to LR as a separate file.

The finished image can then be exported as a JPEG with whatever
qualities I choose.

If I need to make adjustments or edits which are outside the league of
LR4 (and there aren't too many these days), after making adjustments to
the VC I edit a copy with LR adjustments in CS6 and use all that has to
offer. Once I am done I save back to LR4.

I know where everything is, and I am happier and happier every day with
Lightroom and what can be done with it.

I only move selected edited & adjusted images to my iPad, which becomes
a portable portfolio for the albums stored there.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2022%20PM.png


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On 2013-08-07 18:07:21 -0700, Tony Cooper said:

On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 17:36:20 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-08-07 16:48:06 -0700, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 07 Aug 2013 06:24:27 -0400, nospam
wrote:

these days, people have hundreds of thousands of photos, music, movies,
emails, etc. and trying to manually keep track of all of that is
insanity.

Probably insane to accumulate that much in the first place.

Thank goodness for Lightroom.
I see the discussion has moved to image databases and workflow, I might
as well throw my current workflow into this street fight.
Since getting LR4 I find I have changed from primary use of Bridge and
ACR with occasional use of LR for cataloging, to intensive use of LR4
for cataloging, adjusting and editing.

I import from CF card (& occasionally SDHC) into LR4 and convert to
DNG. The shoots are filed by capture date. I then rename the folder to
add a specific event, or location. So I might have from a three day
trip, 2010-05-18 KC-Sequoia 1, 2010-05-19 KC-Sequoia 2, & 2010-05-20
KC-Sequoia 3.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1295663/Fil...enshot_276.jpg

Then I make an initial pass through each of those new imports and make
a rudimentary "star" rating and rejection of non-keepers, and flag
those I want to work on immediately.

Once I have decided which shots I am going to work on, I create a
virtual copy(VC) and apply LR adjustments and edits to the virtual
copy. If I want to use the NIK plugins in LR, I work on a copy of the
LR adjusted VC which is saved back to LR as a separate file.

The finished image can then be exported as a JPEG with whatever
qualities I choose.

If I need to make adjustments or edits which are outside the league of
LR4 (and there aren't too many these days), after making adjustments to
the VC I edit a copy with LR adjustments in CS6 and use all that has to
offer. Once I am done I save back to LR4.

I know where everything is, and I am happier and happier every day with
Lightroom and what can be done with it.

I only move selected edited & adjusted images to my iPad, which becomes
a portable portfolio for the albums stored there.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2022%20PM.png


It

sounds like your system is as "complex" as mine. I use "complex"
in scare quotes because it is not complex at all if that's your normal
workflow just as mine is not at all complex in my normal workflow.

As I've said many times, I don't use the Lightroom editing capability.
I'm sure it works a treat, but I'm so used to working in Photoshop
that I haven't bothered to learn the LR system. The steps have been
so instinctive that the processing of an image is done in a negligible
amount of time. You seem to be at that stage in LR.

I can make simple adjustments and edits very quickly in LR, even if I
use any of the NIK plugins, or if I edit in CS6.

The only thing that slows me down is all those damn choices that my
newly installed Nik package offers. I have to go through each preset
just to see what it does, and usually end up about the same as if I
didn't have Nik.

Well, to be fair the two major adjustment NIK plug-ins with presets are
Color Efex Pro4 & Silver Efex Pro2.
I find that I am comfortable enough with Silver Efex, to not use
presets and just make the adjustments with the sliders, filters, etc.

With Color Efex I am usually looking for something specific and have a
few filters I use regularly.

Viveza is a little different, and is one of those you have to practice
with to get subtle effects which can finish the image very nicely.

I have got to the stage with my NIK learning curve that I can get the
results I want without too much experimentation.
The tutorials have been a big help, but you need to invest some time
into watching them.

Image processing/editing is not a race, and there's no prize for
shaving off seconds. The objective is to get the image the way you
like it.

Yup!

The next objective, which is more on-topic here, is to place
the image where you can find it. That's why I paid for LR for just
the organizing/keyword features.

....and that is what LR doe for me.


--
Regards,

Savageduck

On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:19:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-08-07 14:55:57 -0700, Eric Stevens said:

On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 08:43:29 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

Yup! It's just a tool for you to use as you needed. Somewhat like a
Swiss army knife which you only use for the corkscrew.


All my wine comes with screw tops.

Aah! NZ plonk.

And damned good plonk it is too.
http://www.winechina.com/html/2012/10/201210134224.html
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:25:21 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On 2013-08-07 15:06:07 -0700, Eric Stevens said:


Does the iPad have a flying carpet app? Does it have radar?

Well you can get close to having radar on your desktop or your iPad.
http://www.flightradar24.com
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/flig...382069612?mt=8

Plenty of aircraft but not a single iPad in transit that I can see.
:-)
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Thu, 08 Aug 2013 00:18:07 +0200, Sandman wrote:

In article ,
Eric Stevens wrote:

if they want to be limited to what a file system can do, they can still
do that, but if they want to avail themselves of additional
functionality, which *does* make things easier, they can do that too.

You don't seem to realise that what everyone refers to as a 'file
system' is a database.

No it isn't.

All a 'file system' does is provide you with
pointers to a table which contains pointers to where the various
chunks of raw data actually are.

Which doesn't make it a database.

Because it's not SQL compliant?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , PeterN
wrote:

users want to access *content*. where that content is does not matter.
it might not even be on their device.

If the content I need is "what to do when the power goes out," I want it
on my device, so I can access it while I still have battery power.

Do you have any example of such content to share with us, or did you
just make that up to have an argument?

And why is this supposed content on the device that may have the power
go out instead of in a medium that isn't susceptible to that, like...
paper?

There are times when immediate access to content is required. If the
Internet line goes down, production should not have to come to a halt. I
was specifically thinking of C&C operations, where the entire set of
machine instructions is downloaded. It is also downloaded for review,
for possible transmission corruption.

Uh, ok, but that really doesn't fit the entire "what to do when the
power goes out" content...

Also, you are now talking about when the internet line goes down, not
when power goes out, so it seems we've strayed a bit here...

Look up "metaphor" in your dictionary.

look up irrelevant and confused.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

You're not as hostile as usual. Did you take "be nice" pills recently.

i was waiting for your idiotic and inane comments to let loose. i
didn't need to wait too long but they weren't as stupid as usual. you
disappointed me.

Were you born an asshole, or did you learn it along the way. Until you
started posting, I didn't know an asshole could type. Or, do you use
sound recognition.

says the person who makes numerous typos.

i guess assholes really can't type after all.

In article , PeterN
wrote:

users want to access *content*. where that content is does not matter.
it might not even be on their device.

If the content I need is "what to do when the power goes out," I want it
on my device, so I can access it while I still have battery power.

what's your point?

get a ups if power outages are an issue, or plan ahead and get what you
need before the power goes out.

or just move to where power outages aren't a serious problem.

You are displaying the lack of reasoning ability I thought. Thank you
for not disappointing.

it's all well reasoned. if power outages are an issue, get a ups or
move to where power is more reliable. problem solved. that's common
sense, which you obviously lack.

not that it matters since the topic has absolutely nothing to do with
power outages.