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  #1  
Old September 15th 15, 06:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Two questions

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.

A posting on the PS forum, by Chris Cox, who is on the PS development team.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1358970

"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.

But some operations slow down with additional cores, and some operations
can't benefit from threading at all."


Does anyone here know whether this has been changed for PS2015?

I suspect the same question applies to the plugins I use, but I will
address them separately.


2. Does it make any difference if I use an AMD or Intel CPU?





--
PeterN
  #2  
Old September 15th 15, 06:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Two questions

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.


not in the way you think

A posting on the PS forum, by Chris Cox, who is on the PS development team.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1358970

"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.

But some operations slow down with additional cores, and some operations
can't benefit from threading at all."

Does anyone here know whether this has been changed for PS2015?


it hasn't changed because there's nothing to change.

read the first sentence:
"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.


that means that if using multiple cores helps, they'll be used, but if
it doesn't help, then it won't.

put another way, photoshop and other adobe software is very highly
tuned to give the fastest results possible, using however many cores
are needed for a particular operation.

I suspect the same question applies to the plugins I use, but I will
address them separately.


it applies to *all* software running on a computer.

some things benefit from multiple cores and some things do not. that's
just how it is.

it's a bit like saying it takes 9 months to make a baby, no matter how
many women you have.

2. Does it make any difference if I use an AMD or Intel CPU?


nope, nor does it matter if it's mac or windows, ios or android or
anything else.

some tasks can't be split into pieces.
  #3  
Old September 15th 15, 08:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Two questions

On 9/15/2015 1:39 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.


not in the way you think


My source, as listed below is a published post from a member of the
Adobe development team.

How is my thinking wrong/



A posting on the PS forum, by Chris Cox, who is on the PS development team.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1358970

"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.

But some operations slow down with additional cores, and some operations
can't benefit from threading at all."

Does anyone here know whether this has been changed for PS2015?


it hasn't changed because there's nothing to change.

read the first sentence:
"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.


that means that if using multiple cores helps, they'll be used, but if
it doesn't help, then it won't.

put another way, photoshop and other adobe software is very highly
tuned to give the fastest results possible, using however many cores
are needed for a particular operation.

I suspect the same question applies to the plugins I use, but I will
address them separately.


it applies to *all* software running on a computer.

some things benefit from multiple cores and some things do not. that's
just how it is.


I know. It a lot of the processes I use do not benefit from
multi-threading, there is no reason to spend the money. If my uses would
benefit from a Xenon processor, I would consider getting one. To me it's
scary how much even the sales people from HP and Lenovo don't know. At
least they are not trying to bull**** me about what they don't know,
like Dell does.


it's a bit like saying it takes 9 months to make a baby, no matter how
many women you have.

2. Does it make any difference if I use an AMD or Intel CPU?


nope, nor does it matter if it's mac or windows, ios or android or
anything else.






some tasks can't be split into pieces.




--
PeterN
  #4  
Old September 15th 15, 09:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Two questions

In article , PeterN
wrote:

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.


not in the way you think


My source, as listed below is a published post from a member of the
Adobe development team.


i know who chris cox is. what he wrote is exactly correct and i've even
cited it in the past.

How is my thinking wrong/


i explained that already.

once again, you're assuming that photoshop will blindly use all cores
even when it's counterproductive.

that's wrong.

photoshop is very highly tuned and will use as many cores as will
benefit a given operation. if a particular operation does not benefit
from multiple cores then it won't use multiple cores.

photoshop might also offload to gpu if that produces faster results.

photoshop is *so* highly tuned that it's even tweaked for different
variants of the same processor.

it will do whatever produces the fastest results on given hardware.

if a given task does not benefit from additional cores, then they'll
sit idle an do nothing, like union workers.

whether it's worth it to buy system with more cores is up to you. there
is no downside, other than initial price. other software may benefit
too.

in general, video benefits from multicore and photo does not but there
are a *lot* of exceptions.

if you want to see just how highly optimized photoshop can be, try
comparing it with the gimp. the difference in speed between the two is
staggering, with photoshop being well over an order of magnitude faster
in some cases.
  #5  
Old September 15th 15, 11:12 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,254
Default Two questions

On 9/15/2015 4:03 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , PeterN
wrote:

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.

not in the way you think


My source, as listed below is a published post from a member of the
Adobe development team.


i know who chris cox is. what he wrote is exactly correct and i've even
cited it in the past.

How is my thinking wrong/


i explained that already.

once again, you're assuming that photoshop will blindly use all cores
even when it's counterproductive.

that's wrong.

photoshop is very highly tuned and will use as many cores as will
benefit a given operation. if a particular operation does not benefit
from multiple cores then it won't use multiple cores.

photoshop might also offload to gpu if that produces faster results.

photoshop is *so* highly tuned that it's even tweaked for different
variants of the same processor.

it will do whatever produces the fastest results on given hardware.

if a given task does not benefit from additional cores, then they'll
sit idle an do nothing, like union workers.

whether it's worth it to buy system with more cores is up to you. there
is no downside, other than initial price. other software may benefit
too.

in general, video benefits from multicore and photo does not but there
are a *lot* of exceptions.

if you want to see just how highly optimized photoshop can be, try
comparing it with the gimp. the difference in speed between the two is
staggering, with photoshop being well over an order of magnitude faster
in some cases.


Thanks. I freely admit that I would not know where to start with the
Gimp. I tried it many moons ago, and see no reason to try it again.
I don't mind spending a few bucks more, if I will gain from it. What is
gain for others, may not be gain for me. e.g. After lusting after the
24" 4k NEC, I wound up getting a 4K 28" Asus for less than half the
price. If it doesn't do what I hope it will do, I can return it. There
is a 30 day trial period. My main reasons are that 95% of the work I do
is well within the sRGB spectrum. Some of the features of the NEC are
not useful for me, as the lighting in my work area is fairly consistent.
I ran some tests on a store model, five out of five prints matched the
monitor output in both hue and luminescence. My ego would have preferred
the NEC, but I will put the cost difference toward getting a new and
better box than I was originally planning on.

--
PeterN
  #6  
Old September 15th 15, 11:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Two questions

In article , PeterN
wrote:

How is my thinking wrong/


i explained that already.

once again, you're assuming that photoshop will blindly use all cores
even when it's counterproductive.

that's wrong.

photoshop is very highly tuned and will use as many cores as will
benefit a given operation. if a particular operation does not benefit
from multiple cores then it won't use multiple cores.

photoshop might also offload to gpu if that produces faster results.

photoshop is *so* highly tuned that it's even tweaked for different
variants of the same processor.

it will do whatever produces the fastest results on given hardware.

if a given task does not benefit from additional cores, then they'll
sit idle an do nothing, like union workers.

whether it's worth it to buy system with more cores is up to you. there
is no downside, other than initial price. other software may benefit
too.

in general, video benefits from multicore and photo does not but there
are a *lot* of exceptions.

if you want to see just how highly optimized photoshop can be, try
comparing it with the gimp. the difference in speed between the two is
staggering, with photoshop being well over an order of magnitude faster
in some cases.


Thanks. I freely admit that I would not know where to start with the
Gimp. I tried it many moons ago, and see no reason to try it again.


there is no reason to try the gimp at all. it's garbage. it's not even
worth free.

my point is to show just how highly optimized photoshop is versus
something that has little to no optimizations.

I don't mind spending a few bucks more, if I will gain from it. What is
gain for others, may not be gain for me. e.g. After lusting after the
24" 4k NEC, I wound up getting a 4K 28" Asus for less than half the
price. If it doesn't do what I hope it will do, I can return it. There
is a 30 day trial period. My main reasons are that 95% of the work I do
is well within the sRGB spectrum. Some of the features of the NEC are
not useful for me, as the lighting in my work area is fairly consistent.
I ran some tests on a store model, five out of five prints matched the
monitor output in both hue and luminescence. My ego would have preferred
the NEC, but I will put the cost difference toward getting a new and
better box than I was originally planning on.


ok.
  #7  
Old September 15th 15, 11:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Two questions

On Tue, 15 Sep 2015 13:02:28 -0400, PeterN
wrote:

I am starting to research a new machine:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.

A posting on the PS forum, by Chris Cox, who is on the PS development team.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1358970

"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.

But some operations slow down with additional cores, and some operations
can't benefit from threading at all."


My understanding is that Photoshop only uses multiple cores when it
will help. If using multiple cores will slow things down, then it
won't use them. The speed of the graphic processor may be more
important.


Does anyone here know whether this has been changed for PS2015?

I suspect the same question applies to the plugins I use, but I will
address them separately.


2. Does it make any difference if I use an AMD or Intel CPU?

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #8  
Old September 15th 15, 11:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Two questions

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I have two questions a windows machine:

1 I have read statements that some operations of PS may actually be
slowed down when using multiple cores.

A posting on the PS forum, by Chris Cox, who is on the PS development team.
https://forums.adobe.com/thread/1358970

"Photoshop uses all the cores it can, when it would speed up the operation.

But some operations slow down with additional cores, and some operations
can't benefit from threading at all."


My understanding is that Photoshop only uses multiple cores when it
will help. If using multiple cores will slow things down, then it
won't use them.


correct

The speed of the graphic processor may be more
important.


only if a given task is offloaded to the gpu. some things are and some
are not for the same reasons as multicore. sometimes a gpu helps and
sometimes it doesn't. if it doesn't, it's done on the cpu.
  #9  
Old September 16th 15, 06:12 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
David Taylor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,146
Default Two questions

On 15/09/2015 23:03, Eric Stevens wrote:
[]
My understanding is that Photoshop only uses multiple cores when it
will help. If using multiple cores will slow things down, then it
won't use them. The speed of the graphic processor may be more
important.


Eric,

Whatever Photoshop does, having at least 4 cores would be my
recommendation for a system today. My most recent has 4 cores with
hyperthreading, making for 8 available processors. Memory is, perhaps,
even more important, and I would suggest 8-16 GB, depending on your
exact needs. Intel rather than AMD. Check with your software supplier
what benefit can be had from a good graphics card and choose that
accordingly. SSD (~250 GB) for the system disk, HDs for data storage.

--
Cheers,
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
  #10  
Old September 16th 15, 09:25 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,611
Default Two questions

On Wed, 16 Sep 2015 06:12:28 +0100, David Taylor
wrote:

On 15/09/2015 23:03, Eric Stevens wrote:
[]
My understanding is that Photoshop only uses multiple cores when it
will help. If using multiple cores will slow things down, then it
won't use them. The speed of the graphic processor may be more
important.


Eric,

Whatever Photoshop does, having at least 4 cores would be my
recommendation for a system today. My most recent has 4 cores with
hyperthreading, making for 8 available processors. Memory is, perhaps,
even more important, and I would suggest 8-16 GB, depending on your
exact needs. Intel rather than AMD. Check with your software supplier
what benefit can be had from a good graphics card and choose that
accordingly. SSD (~250 GB) for the system disk, HDs for data storage.


Not quite the point I was addressing but otherwise I would agree with
you.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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