Very Low Temperature Photography

David Littlewood writes:

However, using well-accepted laws of physics, one can say: (1) for
certain, the film will attract condensation, which will result in the
photos being terribly fogged to the point of being unable to distinguish
much; (2) the film base will become more brittle and likely to break in
transport through the camera.

I never accepted the laws of physics. I didn't vote them, so why should I?

On the other hand, I used to take photos of the small amount of the
borealis I could see in North Dakota in the dark of winter. Well below zero
Fahrenheit. There is no condensation when you take film from the warm house
into subzero temperatures. There is some concern about brittle film and
there is more concern about winding too fast and causing sparks of static
electricity, but that's winter in North Dakota. Additionally, the
shutter would slowly freeze and grind to a halt. Whether this was because
the battery was dying or the actual freezing of something in the camera, I
leave to sepculation.*

Any condensation on the film comes when you bring it back in the house,
remove the cassette from the camera, then pull the film out to let it warm
up to room temperature. :- There's no a whole lot of condensing going on
at 10, 20, 30 below 0 Fahrenheit. Of course, then we can talk about
sublimation.**

SNIP
*The photochemistry of film exposure involves migration of Ag atom
nucleation sites to form aggregates of (IIRC) 4-6 atoms - without this

*Yeah, right. The only Aggies I knew were more concerned with the
nucleation of fertilized eggs, but that's another story. In my experience,
Aggies do tend to aggregate, but not to migrate. Did you hear about the
Aggie who saw a sign that said "Wet Paint" so he did?

**Sex is the sublimation of Mathematics. -- TC Reed
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.

In article , Phil Stripling
writes
David Littlewood writes:

However, using well-accepted laws of physics, one can say: (1) for
certain, the film will attract condensation, which will result in the
photos being terribly fogged to the point of being unable to distinguish
much; (2) the film base will become more brittle and likely to break in
transport through the camera.

I never accepted the laws of physics. I didn't vote them, so why should I?

On the other hand, I used to take photos of the small amount of the
borealis I could see in North Dakota in the dark of winter. Well below zero
Fahrenheit. There is no condensation when you take film from the warm house
into subzero temperatures. There is some concern about brittle film and
there is more concern about winding too fast and causing sparks of static
electricity, but that's winter in North Dakota. Additionally, the
shutter would slowly freeze and grind to a halt. Whether this was because
the battery was dying or the actual freezing of something in the camera, I
leave to sepculation.*

Any condensation on the film comes when you bring it back in the house,
remove the cassette from the camera, then pull the film out to let it warm
up to room temperature. :- There's no a whole lot of condensing going on
at 10, 20, 30 below 0 Fahrenheit. Of course, then we can talk about
sublimation.**

This is quite logical. However, we were asked about the artificial
cooling of a film for use in (potentially) warm/wet ambient conditions,
which is more akin to the "bringing back into the house" scenario" - or
"taking it out of the freezer and using it straight away" scenario.

SNIP
*The photochemistry of film exposure involves migration of Ag atom
nucleation sites to form aggregates of (IIRC) 4-6 atoms - without this

*Yeah, right. The only Aggies I knew were more concerned with the
nucleation of fertilized eggs, but that's another story. In my experience,
Aggies do tend to aggregate, but not to migrate. Did you hear about the
Aggie who saw a sign that said "Wet Paint" so he did?

Ah - are you from Texas?

**Sex is the sublimation of Mathematics. -- TC Reed

--
David Littlewood

In article , Phil Stripling
writes
David Littlewood writes:

However, using well-accepted laws of physics, one can say: (1) for
certain, the film will attract condensation, which will result in the
photos being terribly fogged to the point of being unable to distinguish
much; (2) the film base will become more brittle and likely to break in
transport through the camera.

I never accepted the laws of physics. I didn't vote them, so why should I?

On the other hand, I used to take photos of the small amount of the
borealis I could see in North Dakota in the dark of winter. Well below zero
Fahrenheit. There is no condensation when you take film from the warm house
into subzero temperatures. There is some concern about brittle film and
there is more concern about winding too fast and causing sparks of static
electricity, but that's winter in North Dakota. Additionally, the
shutter would slowly freeze and grind to a halt. Whether this was because
the battery was dying or the actual freezing of something in the camera, I
leave to sepculation.*

Any condensation on the film comes when you bring it back in the house,
remove the cassette from the camera, then pull the film out to let it warm
up to room temperature. :- There's no a whole lot of condensing going on
at 10, 20, 30 below 0 Fahrenheit. Of course, then we can talk about
sublimation.**

This is quite logical. However, we were asked about the artificial
cooling of a film for use in (potentially) warm/wet ambient conditions,
which is more akin to the "bringing back into the house" scenario" - or
"taking it out of the freezer and using it straight away" scenario.

SNIP
*The photochemistry of film exposure involves migration of Ag atom
nucleation sites to form aggregates of (IIRC) 4-6 atoms - without this

*Yeah, right. The only Aggies I knew were more concerned with the
nucleation of fertilized eggs, but that's another story. In my experience,
Aggies do tend to aggregate, but not to migrate. Did you hear about the
Aggie who saw a sign that said "Wet Paint" so he did?

Ah - are you from Texas?

**Sex is the sublimation of Mathematics. -- TC Reed

--
David Littlewood

Ah - are you from Texas?

Of course. :-
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.

Ah - are you from Texas?

Of course. :-
--
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed
Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@
http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.

In article , Phil Stripling
writes
Ah - are you from Texas?

Of course. :-

OK; I have lots of friends and colleagues in Houston, and have been well
briefed on the Texas Aggie issue!

David
--
David Littlewood

In article , Phil Stripling
writes
Ah - are you from Texas?

Of course. :-

OK; I have lots of friends and colleagues in Houston, and have been well
briefed on the Texas Aggie issue!

David
--
David Littlewood

actually, he was probably "hypering" the film, with inert gas (dry
nitrogen etc.) which causes the film sensitivity to improve noticeably for
astro photography (e.g., from swelling of film emulsion by diffused gas
etc.). The chamber is needed to pressurize the inert gas.

If temperature increase was what was desired, it would be easier to make a
hot film pressure plate heating the rear of the film during exposure etc.

hth bobm
--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

actually, he was probably "hypering" the film, with inert gas (dry
nitrogen etc.) which causes the film sensitivity to improve noticeably for
astro photography (e.g., from swelling of film emulsion by diffused gas
etc.). The chamber is needed to pressurize the inert gas.

If temperature increase was what was desired, it would be easier to make a
hot film pressure plate heating the rear of the film during exposure etc.

hth bobm
--
************************************************** *********************
* Robert Monaghan POB 752182 Southern Methodist Univ. Dallas Tx 75275 *
********************Standard Disclaimers Apply*************************

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:48:02 GMT, "Justin Thyme"
wrote:

Obviously one wouldn't freeze film with liquid nitrogen to take photos -
winding it on would be a real bitch, but since it doesn't get real cold in
my part of the world, I was wondering if anyone has experience with how film
reacts if it is exposed at say 0C (32F) or even lower, compared to say
20C(~70F)

There isn't enough difference in sensitivity to make any difference in
calculating exposure.