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Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos



 
 
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  #191  
Old October 19th 18, 02:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Neil[_9_]
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Posts: 521
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

On 10/19/2018 8:02 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Friday, 19 October 2018 12:13:46 UTC+1, Neil wrote:
On 10/19/2018 5:21 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 18 October 2018 18:10:01 UTC+1, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2018 11:55 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Thursday, 18 October 2018 16:05:58 UTC+1, Neil wrote:
On 10/18/2018 5:03 AM, Whisky-dave wrote:
On Wednesday, 17 October 2018 17:44:12 UTC+1, Neil wrote:
On 10/16/2018 9:07 PM, Ken Hart wrote:
On 10/16/2018 12:17 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Neil
wrote:

Word under DOS had both mouse control and WYSIWYG, as did all
apps that
needed it, such as drawing, painting, etc. FWIW, Windows 1, 2, & 3.x
were merely DOS shells, and there were better shells available
prior to
them.

I don't remmeber WYSIWYG being any good under DOS. It could have been
that at the time all we had was orange/black or green/black 80
coloumn
monitors.

I think it depends on one's systems.

I don;t think so DOS was NEVER WYSIWYG.

Under DOS/Windows, WYSYIWYG is determined by the app, not the OS. Not
all apps need to be able to preview font sizes and so forth (or even be
able to print, for that matter).

except that dos apps are limited by what dos can do, or in this case,
not do.

I had NTSC color monitors under DOS
and I could see the layout, word spacing, fonts, etc. I was going
to get
prior to printing the document. That, to me, *is* WYSIWYG.

Not at the time it wasn't couldĀ* you see underline and the font
sizes as
well as font type.

Well, I have numerous publications from those times that were created in
Word, and I could always preview them prior to printing. So, I don't
know (or care) what your limitations were, but they weren't universal.

it absolutely was a universal limitation. it's *not* possible for dos
to do wysiwyg. period.

whatever preview you had was only an approximation of the final output.
it was *not* wysiwyg.

the mac was the first mainstream computer to do wysiwyg. all drawing to
the screen used the *same* graphics apis as drawing to the printer, so
whatever was on screen was *exactly* what would be on paper, regardless
of font, size, face or embedded graphics.

Years ago, in the pre-win3.1 days of MS-DOS, there was a software
package called "Fontasy". I remember it fondly from that time- it could
do all sorts of graphics, text layout, various fonts (hence the name),
etc; and it ran on......

(Drumroll, please....)

MS-DOS 2.1 or higher.

Here is a Google Books link to PC Mag for Oct 15, 1985, showing a
full-page ad for Fontasy.
https://books.google.com/books?id=Wc...ware&f=fa lse


One of the cool things I remember doing was to lay out a page with
multiple columns and boxes containing photos, then filling in text
around these items on the page. All this on screen, in WYSIWYG, running
on a DOS PC.

At the time, I thought the software was so good, I refused to pirate it!
The program was $50, and additional font disks were (IIRC) only $6 each
for 5" floppies.

Obviously, times have changed, and we don't use 9-pin dot matrix
printers anymore. But the point is: this was a WYSIWYG word processing,
page layout program that ran under DOS.

I remember Fontasy, and there were several such programs available prior
to that with less layout capability. People who think WYSIWYG requires
OS-based GUIs don't understand that WYSISYG means only what it says; one
knows what one will get prior to printing it out.

--
best regards,

Neil

It's a bit more than that, and that is whole point.

Sure if you type _pilchards_ then you know that is underline when sent to the printer but that IS NOT but that is not WYSISYG.


Anyone who understands the many aspects of *professional* typography and
lithographic printing knows that regardless of the OS, *all* WYSIWYG
screen views are approximations, not precise renderings. How good the
renderings are depends on the apps, and the best of them were not
available for the Macs of the day.

But for the user who didn't want to or need have to go to a *professional* typography could do everything themselves on a Mac, that was the point of it.
It was easy, you could see on the screen what it'd be like before printing and could edit and adjust before printing.

Well, as I've stated many times, my use of all hardware, cameras, etc.
is as a professional. So, my responses in this thread are mainly to
inform those who think that the apps, WYSIWYG, etc. were not available
for the PC/DOS systems, which is quite wrong.

Can you actually show or link to these products which were abvailble for PC/DOS, they were close to WYSIWYG but not what people called WYSIWYG.

You have already admitted that your lack of knowledge of these apps is
based on your lack of need for them. I have no problem with that, and in
fact think that is the smart way to choose hardware and software.

I have no interest whatsoever in wandering around the web to see what is
or isn't available.


It's whether or not it truely exists is the point and just how WYSIWYG if only a proefessonal could use it. You do know books were printed years before computers were used and they were WYSIWYG, you put the metal letters in a tray like object so if you wanted the word "The" you'd place those charcters in a tray apply ink and them press them onto paper and that too can be WYSIWYG can't it.
You see the letters and then they get printed.

But if you type in
what was the first WYSIWYG word processor

https://www.zdnet.com/article/in-the...ord-processor/

WordStar was for many of us the first word processor we could use on a general purpose PC.
It was also the first popular What You See is What You Get (WYSIWYG) word processor. So long as you didn't want, oh say, fonts. Fonts were pretty much beyond us in these days of daisy-wheel and dot-matrix printers.


I do have the discs for those apps, but I'm also not
going to take pictures of them. So, what may I help you to understand is
that WYSIWYG is *always* an approximation, not an absolute. It requires
a GUI, but it doesn't matter a hoot whether that GUI is OS or app-based.


But DOS wasn't a GUI.
I have stated numerous times that under DOS, GUIs were *APP-BASED*. I

stated above that it doesn't matter a hoot whether the GUI is OS or
app-based in terms of WYSIWYG. I have already posted some irrefutable
elementary examples in my response to nospam in this discussion of why
WYSIWYG is always an approximation and not an absolute. You can go read
them.

As for the rest, I have no need to prove to you the existence of
professional typographic and lithographic software that ran under DOS.
So, if you wish to learn about the topic do your own homework, but it is
your prerogative to remain uninformed.

--
best regards,

Neil
  #192  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Neil
wrote:

Anyone who understands the many aspects of *professional* typography and
lithographic printing knows that regardless of the OS, *all* WYSIWYG
screen views are approximations, not precise renderings. How good the
renderings are depends on the apps,


on the mac, it *didn't* depend on the apps because wysiwyg was built
into the system itself, both hardware and software. *every* app was
wysiwyg. that was one major advantage the mac had over every other
system at the time. this is a concept you fail to understand.

and the best of them were not
available for the Macs of the day.


that's a completely separate issue.
  #193  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article ,
Whisky-dave wrote:

wysiwyg on dos was an approximation, perhaps close enough for whatever
you were doing, but there was a lot of room for improvement.


Same thing applied to the classic MacIntosh.


No because it had been designed with wysiwyg in mind.


correct. wysiwyg is a core part of the mac, both hardware and software.

What's this 'classic MacIntosh' actually mean anyway.
You're not refering to the macintosh classic are you ?


macs which ran classic mac os, from 1984 to the early 2000s.

however, os x also has a single imaging pipeline, so the distinction
isn't that important. it's just a different pipeline now.
  #194  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:


sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.

Of course it has. You are very thick headed!


So tell me what has it got to do with backups ?

Where will they do backups?


Why do you think sending a USB stick of photos is a backup ?


Do you really need explaining, or lessons on reading skills?


do explain why a copy of a few photos that eric sent to someone is
actually a backup of his computer.

also explain how he would go about restoring from that usb stick, one
which he no longer has.

this will be most entertaining.
  #195  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

I know people that do not know how to copy files to/from an usb
stick.

one need not know how to do that for backups to occur.

Ah? And how will that person do the backup? The backup has to go
somewhere. Or are you doing the backup to same disk?

automatic backups, without the user having to do anything special.

Yes yes yes. But you are not saying where are those automatic backups
stored.

either the cloud or an external hard drive. all the user needs to do is
enable backups, which is trivial.

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.


that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.


Of course it has!

You have to store the backup somewhere!


on an external drive, not a usb stick.

usb sticks are not good for backups for all sorts of reasons. for one,
they're too small.

however, it does further the point that people incorrectly assume
computers are hard to use, which requires technical skills and
extensive training.


On the contrary. It proves that there are people that need training to
do what we consider simple things.


if training is required, it's by definition, not simple.

computers do not need to be difficult.

they're only that way because microsoft made money from making them
hard to use and then selling training. it's a ****ed up business model,
which fortunately, doesn't work anymore.

you should also have known that your own sister would not know what to
do with a usb stick. why even send her one in the first place?


No, because we can not know that till we try. And we have difficulties
getting down to their level - as proved by you not understanding.


i understand it quite well and have written a lot of software that is
easy to use. it's a lot more work than slapping something together and
shipping it, but the result is that customers have a better user
experience, a concept lost to windows users and certainly linux users.

unfortunately, there are a lot of lazy and incompetent developers who
don't give a **** which is why most stuff out there is poorly designed
and hard to use, both hardware and software.

the easiest solution would have been to use photo sharing, then the
photos would have appeared on her devices without her needing to do
anything special, including an apple tv if she has one.


That also needs training. *Any* new thing needs training with these kind
of people, because computer are not at all intuitive. Computer are easy
once you manage beyond the curve, but till you do, it is climbing a
steep mountain.


photo sharing doesn't need any training.

the photos magically appear in her photo library, without her having to
do anything extra to retrieve them. that's the whole point.

you're obviously accustomed to poorly designed products that are
difficult to use, where everything is more complicated than it should
be. you expect difficulties. that's unfortunate.

If you live in a circle of people that manage well with computers, you
can hardly understand the problems they people that don't have.


completely wrong.

knowing how to design products so that they are easy to use by a novice
user has nothing whatsoever to do the people one knows. good design a
both an art and a skill, which unfortunately, most people lack.

Ah, and tablets are just as hard, I have to explain each application tap
by tap, and they take notes in paper.


no they're not. tablets and smartphones are *much* easier than legacy
computers, one of many reasons why they're so popular.

Photo sharing, you say. Well, I explained Google plus and the Photo app
to some people. Now G+ is being killed, and I have to find a new method
for us. And explain it to them.


i wasn't talking about google+.

another option would have been to email or text the photos, or upload
them to a photo sharing site and then send her the links. it's not as
simple or as elegant, but it would have worked.


It also needs more work on our side. And maybe we do not want to upload
to a sharing site.


that's a separate issue.

I can not send my 20 MB photos (each) on email, except one photo per
email, or first I have to convert them to a smaller size, which is an
effort on my side, and then they will not print that well as compared to
sending the original in a stick.


that's a limitation of your email provider and the type of computer you
use, not the technology.
  #196  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

They don't know what an external hard drive is, don't have one, and
need
hours of training on how to use it. Similarly with the cloud, but even
worse because their internet is slow, and wifi is also slow.

there is no training. plug it in, click a button. done.

My sister has used Apple computers for many many years. I sent her a
batch of photographs (JPG) on a USB stick and despite seeking help
from her neighbours she never managed to view the photographs. In the
beginning she had not the faintest idea of what to do with the USB
stick. I am sure she is not alone.

that has nothing to do with backups, the topic under discussion.

Of course it has.


sending someone a usb stick full of photos has nothing to do with
backups.


Of course it has. You are very thick headed!


it does not. they are two very different things.

Where will they do backups? In an USB stick? In an external hard disk?
On a networked disk? First, they don't have any. They don't know how to
purchase one. Then they don't know how to use one.


many (incorrect) assumptions.

the easiest is an external drive, however, a network drive is more
flexible, especially for laptop users, and only slightly more difficult
to set up. usb sticks are not for backups. for one, they're too small.

No, "it is plug and play" does not work. I have to go there, and say:
connect this here, this here, the plug in this manner in this socket.
Don't move the disk while powered. Wait till Windows say (interrupt:
what is windows?) that a new device has been found, what to do with it.
Click on here. Then click on here. If you see a warning like this, do this.


windows makes many (most) things complicated.

what's baffling is that people put up with it, make excuses for it and
refuse to investigate *any* alternative to make things easier.

what's really baffling is that they often cannot comprehend that easier
solutions even exist.

in this newsgroup, several people have made excuses for broken and
buggy software, refusing to change to something better and more
capable.

Item by single item, one by one. And be prepared to answer any
difficulty by phone.

You may say that a Mac would be easier. Maybe, but they are harder for
me, and they need someone to ask things.


you haven't used one long enough (or at all) to know.

how is connecting a hard drive and clicking one button harder than what
you described above?

and if someone does need to ask something, they can go to an apple
store for help and classes, entirely for free.

computers do *not* have to be complicated.
  #197  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:


The presumed ease of use of Time Machine is.

it's not presumed. it *is* easier.

... and the relevance of this to Windows 10 is ...?


that as good as win10 is, it's still not as easy to use as it could be.


Maybe, but that's what people have, and changing paradigm on their own
is next to impossible. Then you have to warranty that they have someone
close that can demo any thing they need.


windows is what *some* people have. not everyone uses it, and there's
no need to demo everything or have someone nearby to demo anything.

For what it is worth, if I were available I would set the machine in
Linux. I have tried it, they handle it as easily as Windows, they don't
notice the change (just click on the Mozilla icon). As long as I
maintain the machine, it is no trouble for them. But I'm not near site.


linux is the worst possible choice for a computer novice.

almost all mainstream software and hardware is only for mac/windows and
won't work on linux, and what does work on linux is generally not very
good.

the fact that you have to 'maintain the machine' is proof why it's a
poor choice for a novice. a well designed system needs no ongoing
maintenance.
  #198  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

how did she manage to plug the computer into mains power and set it
up? that is a *lot* more steps than for time machine.

What kind of idiotic question is that? If she's plugged in an iron or
a toaster, she knows what is to be done with a power cord.


there's nothing idiotic about it. if she can plug a cable into the
wall, then she can plug a cable into the back or side of a computer
(depending on model). it's actually easier than a power cord, since
there's no need to crawl under a desk nor is there a risk of electrical
shock.


These people usually have laptops.


even easier. the ports are on the side, only inches away from where
their hands normally are.

If she
needs it "set up", the store where she bought it will do that.


stores don't normally do that, but if one did, they could connect the
hard drive for her.

What do "steps" have to do with anything?


a lot.

once again, you're babbling about things you know nothing about. i know
you like to argue, it's all you do, but you really should have a good
understanding of the topic before spewing.


Actually he is right, and you are not.


he isn't, nor are you.




The ridiculousness is that you refer to "automatic" back-ups being so
simple and completely ignore that the back-up procedure is only
automatic *after* it is set up for automatic back-ups. There is
nothing automatic about setting it up, and there are choices to be
made that the sister is not capable of understanding. You think she
knows if she wants an incremental or differential back-up?


once again, you're babbling about things you know absolutely nothing
about.

the setup is nothing more than clicking a single button. that is *it*:
https://support.apple.com/library/co...are/images/en_
US/osx/tm_new_drive.png


Windows. Don't divert.


i'm not diverting. windows is overly complicated and a very bad choice
for a computer novice.

for some reason, people make excuses to keep using it when far simpler
options exist.

computers do not need to be complicated.
  #199  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

How would you improve the design of a USB memory stick from the user's
point of view?

i already explained why sending photos on a usb stick is not a good
solution, with several alternatives. do try to keep up.

Dodge - twist - evade.

nope.

How should I go about sending you 4GB of photos?

read previous post.

I've just made a global search of all the messages in this thread
containing 4GB and have found that you seem to have evaded answering
my previous queries on this subject. Just in case I'm wrong, could you
please cite the message in which you explained or could you even
repeat your explanation?


i have not evaded anything and your search skills are not very good.

you even commented on the various suggestions, so you have full
knowledge of the existence of the post.

in other words, *you* are the one who is evading.


You evade how to send 4 GB of photos.


nope. not only was it explained, but *you* even replied to it, as did
eric.
  #200  
Old October 19th 18, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24,165
Default Windows 10 update wipes out files and photos

In article , Carlos E.R.
wrote:

It's been a while since I set up my backups, but - as I remember - I
had to make choices...where to back-up, when to back up, and what type
of back-up to do. That is a rather complicated process for someone
who is not computer-savvy. Even before that the person has to know
how to even start the process.


I had to set up a shared networked directory on another computer. Not
that trivial. Windows refused to use an USB stick for the backup.


only because windows makes even the simplest things more complicated
than it needs to be. to its credit it knew enough not to use a usb
stick for a backup.

on a mac, setting up a shared folder (or an entire drive) is trivial,
and if the goal is backups, you don't even need to set anything up.
simply choose the other computer in the time machine system preference
and the mac does the rest. and yes, it really is that simple.

there are many other options available for those who want to dig deeper
than that, however, a novice user does not need to.
 




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