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Ripe Apples



 
 
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  #41  
Old November 11th 17, 06:41 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:


For those who are interested in learning more about market research
and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
the subject. Dates and routes to be announced.


more of your repeated attacks.
  #42  
Old November 11th 17, 07:27 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

For those who are interested in learning more about market research
and market survey techniques, you will be pleased to know that nospam
and Delta Air Lines have announced a series of in-flight seminars on
the subject. Dates and routes to be announced.


more of your repeated attacks.


nope


more of your lies.
  #43  
Old November 11th 17, 08:40 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 09:49:05 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.

yes we were.

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.

dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
long ago.

but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share.

also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/upl...ot-2013-04-16-
at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png


Wiggle wiggle (also squirm).


nope.

Why don't you continue to talk about the
relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
you started off?


that's exactly what i have been talking about all along.


Are you really saying Apple is raking in all those bucks in the PC
market?


as i said:
if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
subject.

nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
you do.


And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
seem prepared for.


nope. you clearly do not.

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.


I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.


also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market
segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.

Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.

whoosh.


Can't answer that, can you.


i already did, and more than once.


I bet you won't tell me where.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #44  
Old November 11th 17, 11:02 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,056
Default Ripe Apples

On 11/11/2017 12:31 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:


SNIP


In related news, Snopes has debunked the rumor that nospam was the
passenger whose camera battery exploded in the Orlando airport
yesterday. There is no indication that nospam owns a camera.


There is a difference between having and using.
In defense of nospam, he probably has an iPhone, which has a built in
camera.


--
PeterN
  #45  
Old November 12th 17, 04:03 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.

yes we were.

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.

dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
long ago.

but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share.

also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/upl...ot-2013-04-16-
at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png

Wiggle wiggle (also squirm).


nope.

Why don't you continue to talk about the
relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
you started off?


that's exactly what i have been talking about all along.


Are you really saying Apple is raking in all those bucks in the PC
market?


yep, along with the smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market.

as i said:
if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
subject.

nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
you do.

And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
seem prepared for.


nope. you clearly do not.

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.


I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.


what you don't know is what the numbers actually mean.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't
really matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.

Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.

whoosh.

Can't answer that, can you.


i already did, and more than once.


I bet you won't tell me where.


you'd lose that bet.
  #46  
Old November 12th 17, 05:15 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Sat, 11 Nov 2017 22:03:14 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.

yes we were.

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.

dell targets a different market segment than apple. the bulk of dell's
sales are corporate contracts, not end user sales. apple's sales are
mostly consumer, a segment dell is extremely weak. for retail sales,
apple owns it. how many dell stores do you see? zero. they were closed
long ago.

but as i said, apple isn't chasing market share.

also, despite apple's supposedly low (and entirely meaningless) market
share, apple is raking in the bucks, more than hp and dell *combined*:
http://www.asymco.com/wp-content/upl...ot-2013-04-16-
at-4-16-4.16.46-PM.png

Wiggle wiggle (also squirm).

nope.

Why don't you continue to talk about the
relative competence of Apple and Dell in the PC market, which is where
you started off?

that's exactly what i have been talking about all along.


Are you really saying Apple is raking in all those bucks in the PC
market?


yep, along with the smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market.

Why are you dragging these in when we more or less continued on from
Message-ID: where we were
discussing tool-free access, remember?

------------------------------------------------------------

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.


They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple. See http://tinyurl.com/hoz6vdg or
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/...are-to-the-mac

Apart from that Dell does make computers with tool-free access.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

At that time the discussion was confined to Apple vs Dell PCs, with no
thought of "smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market." Is Dell in the smartphone market, wearables
market and previously music player market? No, I thought not.

as i said:
if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
subject.

nope. i'm exactly on subject, and understand apple *far* better than
you do.

And I understand the subject where this started off better than you
seem prepared for.

nope. you clearly do not.

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.


I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.


what you don't know is what the numbers actually mean.


OK, what do they mean?

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't
really matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.

Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.

whoosh.

Can't answer that, can you.

i already did, and more than once.


I bet you won't tell me where.


you'd lose that bet.


I'm not betting: I'm asking.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #47  
Old November 12th 17, 06:34 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

At that time the discussion was confined to Apple vs Dell PCs, with no
thought of "smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market." Is Dell in the smartphone market, wearables
market and previously music player market? No, I thought not.


you thought wrong, as usual.

dell has had numerous products in those segments, all of which were a
miserable failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Digital_Jukebox
The Dell Digital Jukebox or just Dell DJ is a brand name for a series
of digital audio players sold by the Dell corporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Streak
Dell Streak 5 (previously known as the Dell Mini 5) is a
smartphone/tablet hybrid ("phablet") from Dell that uses the
Android operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Venue
The Dell Venue (previously known as codename Dell Thunder) is a line
of Android smartphones and tablets manufactured by Dell.
http://www.thegeeksclub.com/dell-exp...ar****ch-weara
ble-tech/
Dell is exploring the possibility of wearable technologies including
a Smar****ch.
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/.../product/dell-
bh200-blth/manuals
Support for Dell BH200 Bluetooth 2.0 EDR Stereo Headset

dell is good at assembling parts, but that's about it.

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.

I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.


what you don't know is what the numbers actually mean.


OK, what do they mean?


not what people think they mean.

dell and hp, with their 'twice market share', are barely more than a
rounding error to apple, the *opposite* of what one would expect from
having twice the market share.

the 'twice market share' numbers also include segments in which apple
does not compete, further invalidating the numbers.

in the segments in which apple does compete, apple has a substantial
market share, if not owning it entirely.

apple also designs the complete package, including hardware, software
and the entire user experience, whereas companies like dell mostly just
assemble parts, thereby making it a completely bogus comparison.

those who are fixated on meaningless market share numbers don't
understand apple or their products. they think the only difference is
the logo and the price. such people are ignorant.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't
really matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.

Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will
also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.

whoosh.

Can't answer that, can you.

i already did, and more than once.

I bet you won't tell me where.


you'd lose that bet.


I'm not betting: I'm asking.


already answered. do try to keep up.
  #48  
Old November 12th 17, 09:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 00:34:47 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

At that time the discussion was confined to Apple vs Dell PCs, with no
thought of "smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market." Is Dell in the smartphone market, wearables
market and previously music player market? No, I thought not.


you thought wrong, as usual.

dell has had numerous products in those segments, all of which were a
miserable failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Digital_Jukebox
The Dell Digital Jukebox or just Dell DJ is a brand name for a series
of digital audio players sold by the Dell corporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Streak
Dell Streak 5 (previously known as the Dell Mini 5) is a
smartphone/tablet hybrid ("phablet") from Dell that uses the
Android operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Venue
The Dell Venue (previously known as codename Dell Thunder) is a line
of Android smartphones and tablets manufactured by Dell.
http://www.thegeeksclub.com/dell-exp...ar****ch-weara
ble-tech/
Dell is exploring the possibility of wearable technologies including
a Smar****ch.
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/.../product/dell-
bh200-blth/manuals
Support for Dell BH200 Bluetooth 2.0 EDR Stereo Headset

None of those are personal computers. Why do you keep dragging them
in?

dell is good at assembling parts, but that's about it.

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.

I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.

what you don't know is what the numbers actually mean.


OK, what do they mean?


not what people think they mean.

dell and hp, with their 'twice market share', are barely more than a
rounding error to apple, the *opposite* of what one would expect from
having twice the market share.


Not when we stay with PCs.

the 'twice market share' numbers also include segments in which apple
does not compete, further invalidating the numbers.


Oh, so it's OK to drag in areas of the wider market in which HP or
Dell do not compete but not OK to drag in areas of the PC market in
which Apple does not compete. Is your bias showing?

in the segments in which apple does compete, apple has a substantial
market share, if not owning it entirely.

apple also designs the complete package, including hardware, software
and the entire user experience, whereas companies like dell mostly just
assemble parts, thereby making it a completely bogus comparison.

those who are fixated on meaningless market share numbers don't
understand apple or their products. they think the only difference is
the logo and the price. such people are ignorant.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't
really matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.

Why?

common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will
also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.

And their money is all equally good.

whoosh.

Can't answer that, can you.

i already did, and more than once.

I bet you won't tell me where.

you'd lose that bet.


I'm not betting: I'm asking.


already answered. do try to keep up.


I should have bet.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #49  
Old November 12th 17, 09:56 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

At that time the discussion was confined to Apple vs Dell PCs, with no
thought of "smartphone market, wearables market and previously
music player market." Is Dell in the smartphone market, wearables
market and previously music player market? No, I thought not.


you thought wrong, as usual.

dell has had numerous products in those segments, all of which were a
miserable failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Digital_Jukebox
The Dell Digital Jukebox or just Dell DJ is a brand name for a series
of digital audio players sold by the Dell corporation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Streak
Dell Streak 5 (previously known as the Dell Mini 5) is a
smartphone/tablet hybrid ("phablet") from Dell that uses the
Android operating system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Venue
The Dell Venue (previously known as codename Dell Thunder) is a line
of Android smartphones and tablets manufactured by Dell.
http://www.thegeeksclub.com/dell-exp...ar****ch-weara
ble-tech/
Dell is exploring the possibility of wearable technologies including
a Smar****ch.
http://www.dell.com/support/home/us/.../product/dell-
bh200-blth/manuals
Support for Dell BH200 Bluetooth 2.0 EDR Stereo Headset

None of those are personal computers. Why do you keep dragging them
in?


because you specifically asked about it:
Is Dell in the smartphone market, wearables
market and previously music player market? No, I thought not.


you're *really* confused.

had dell 'been doing something right', they would not have repeatedly
failed every single time they tried to compete in those segments.

the above products were utter junk.

dell is good at assembling parts, but that's about it.


^^ this ^^

you are fixated on market share being the only metric of success.

that's a fundamental misunderstanding.

you also don't understand what the market share numbers even mean.

I do know how to tell which number is the largest of the two.

what you don't know is what the numbers actually mean.

OK, what do they mean?


not what people think they mean.

dell and hp, with their 'twice market share', are barely more than a
rounding error to apple, the *opposite* of what one would expect from
having twice the market share.


Not when we stay with PCs.


wrong.

the 'twice market share' numbers also include segments in which apple
does not compete, further invalidating the numbers.


Oh, so it's OK to drag in areas of the wider market in which HP or
Dell do not compete but not OK to drag in areas of the PC market in
which Apple does not compete. Is your bias showing?


you're very confused. i'm not dragging in anything.

it's not ok to drag in areas where one company plays and the other does
not, no matter which direction it is.

it's also not ok to compare widely different products thinking they're
somehow equivalent.

for example, dell sells rack mount servers and apple does not, so dell
has infinitely more market share in that segment than apple.

one of many reasons why the numbers are meaningless.

and i'll say it again. apple doesn't chase market share. it's a silly
thing to chase.
  #50  
Old November 14th 17, 12:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Mon, 13 Nov 2017 03:34:55 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 10 November 2017 22:30:19 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 02:57:48 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:50:51 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:49:00 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever.

it need not be ugly to do that.

It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly.

he's right.

It didn't matter. It was out of sight under my desk.

So still takes up extra space, obviously under the desk is the designated place to put a desktop.
Why would you want to put a desktop PC under a desk ?
Was it really that ugly that yuo had to hid it under the desk ?


... because it left me more room on the desk top.


I didn't need to do that, doesn't you're monitor take up space too.
You see one of the advantages of an all in one design is that yuo don;t need that box yuo call a destop, we even went for that design in our PC lab when we brought about 30 dell 9030.


First of all I can't buy an all in one with the same spec as what I
have got. Second you can't replace the screen with another of
different spec while retaining your existing hardware.

Why would we bother with those when we can buy sperate boxes where one can go on the floor on on the desk top.
You see desk tops were getting in the way they couldn't fit on the desk top !
so like you need space on the floor where they got kicked and of course one thing that you;ve ignored is that being at that level they suck in much more dust than they woukld on the desk.


I'm not working in a zoo and I have never had problems with dust.




When we had PC desktops under the desk they got filled with lots of dust and grime and got kicked by the students some got kicked over, but that's students for you. Our new desktop PC have been designed like iMacs so the screen and computer both sit on the desktop.

I don't have that problem of abuse or lack of maintenance.


well done but we do, so rather than just buy the PC with the largest market share we buy what is most useful and not just what sells the most.
I;'m pretty sure yuor graphics card you brought doens;t have the largest market share either so why didn't you but the graphics card that has the largest market share you claim that indicates the best .



I told you above. Besides, I don't buy computers for their ornamental
qualities.


But many people prefer nice looking things, and given the chance will prefer them. How much extra they are willing to pay is up to them.
Only an idea of someone not bothered buys something because it has the greatest market share.

Is that how you decide on which camera is best the one with the biggest market share.
The BEST camera on the market DO NOT have the largest market share.


I just attach a drive to a USB port takes a few seconds, even though we have about 40 PCs in the lab we haven't had to change a drive in years.


Would you want to hang a drive on the kind of USB port circa 2000?


No, but why would I want a PC from circa 2000 ?
Because they had a bigger market share back then.

well I pretty sure I can do more on my iphone than I could do with a PC from circa 2000.


But we did for years run a course unit on hpw PCs work and how to change cards, discs and teh like from PC desktops, but that course has now been cancelled as we know the vast majority of uses don;t ever need to change the ethernet card or hard drive any more than the average car driver has to change their engine or headlights or 'gas' tank.

Don't tell that to nospam.


He knows and so do Apple and that is why we have little or no interest in messing about under the bonnet they want a relible working computer rather than one where they have to keep changing internal components like it was circa 2000, those days are long gone.

It was the same with cars I remmeber on sundays in the 1970s lots of people
working on their cars fixing oil leaks patching up exhaust systems driving around in rust buckets and people in the USA were even worse they couldn't even be bothered with a manual gear change so spend more on an automatic car.




--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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