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Ripe Apples



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 9th 17, 01:49 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever.


it need not be ugly to do that.


It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly.


he's right.

I don't think it was ugly but
it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.


in other words, boring.

I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.


if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.
  #2  
Old November 9th 17, 02:44 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Ripe Apples

On 2017-11-09 07:49, nospam wrote:


meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.
  #3  
Old November 9th 17, 03:03 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.
  #4  
Old November 9th 17, 07:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
PeterN[_7_]
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Posts: 1,056
Default Ripe Apples

On 11/9/2017 9:03 AM, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory. I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation. When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.






On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


--
PeterN
  #5  
Old November 9th 17, 07:58 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , PeterN
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.


trivial for you and me.

trivial for the average consumer, not so much.

I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation.


so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.

When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


not all repairs are that quick and not all places will let you watch.

try that at an auto repair shop.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.


^^^^^


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


more insults and there's nothing vague about it.
  #6  
Old November 9th 17, 11:39 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:58:17 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , PeterN
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.

actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial to
remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.

only if someone has the skills and tools.


Most people I know have the necessary screwdrivers. If not, they are
available at their local hardware store, for very little money. It is
trivial to open the box and add a drive, or memory.


trivial for you and me.

trivial for the average consumer, not so much.

I have someone else
do it, because of a physical limitation.


so it doesn't actually matter. you're making my point.

When I tell a repair guy what I
want, and stand there and watch, the time to repair is short, and the
price is very reasonable.


not all repairs are that quick


No, some machines are not designed to give the repairer rapid access.

... and not all places will let you watch.

try that at an auto repair shop.

while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to open
up a computer to swap a hard drive.


^^^^^


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.


They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple. See http://tinyurl.com/hoz6vdg or
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/...are-to-the-mac

Apart from that Dell does make computers with tool-free access.

hp has a few interesting products, such as the spectre and yoga, but
otherwise, it's the same old boring stuff.

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.

Ah! more vague advice from the world's best industrial designer.


more insults and there's nothing vague about it.


It's not relevant though.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #7  
Old November 9th 17, 09:59 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,640
Default Ripe Apples

On 2017-11-09 09:03, nospam wrote:
In article , Alan
Browne wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
open up their computer and swap parts all day long.


The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all
day long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and
other products.


A nonsense reply of convenience.

Having it so a user can maintain and repair it doesn't prevent people
from getting it repaired elsewhere.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
to remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


A couple screwdrivers. The skills are fairly low end and there a
gazillion sites showing how to do it elsewise. IOW another nonsense
reply of convenience from you.


while readers of usenet might, the general public is not going to
open up a computer to swap a hard drive.


Perhaps. But why not make it easier for those who will. Indeed make it
easier for the "pros" (including Apple) who do it? Again and again your
replies are nonsense convenience reasons.


On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious.
And no reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple
aesthetic.


the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.


Not at all. Many things are designed for maintainability and capability
growth w/o making them more expensive. It's your usual nonsense reply
of convenience.


it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision. Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters. Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity. I see why you admire it.
  #8  
Old November 10th 17, 01:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
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Posts: 427
Default Ripe Apples

On 11/09/2017 03:59 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2017-11-09 09:03, nospam wrote:


snip

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision.* Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters.* Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity.* I see why you admire it.


I can think of a half dozen people who are glad my Ford F-150 doesn't
require removing the wheel for access to the battery. Those half dozen
people are also glad I carry jumper cables to jump start their cars.

Making machines easy to service is a smart design decision, and not
always mutually exclusive with making machines optimum for everyday use.

(OTOH, I replaced my original equipment truck battery at eight years
here in southwest Indiana!)

--
Ken Hart

  #9  
Old November 10th 17, 01:49 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision.* Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters.* Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity.* I see why you admire it.


I can think of a half dozen people who are glad my Ford F-150 doesn't
require removing the wheel for access to the battery. Those half dozen
people are also glad I carry jumper cables to jump start their cars.


there are still battery terminals under the hood, so you'd be able to
jump start other cars or be jump started yourself without any issue
whatsoever.

it's *replacing* the battery, something you admit to not having done
for *eight* *years*, that would require a jack, which presumably you
also carry.

Making machines easy to service is a smart design decision, and not
always mutually exclusive with making machines optimum for everyday use.


sometimes it is.

for vehicles, putting rarely accessed components in normally empty
areas makes a lot of sense.

(OTOH, I replaced my original equipment truck battery at eight years
here in southwest Indiana!)


that's not unusual.
  #10  
Old November 10th 17, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
open up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all
day long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and
other products.


A nonsense reply of convenience.

Having it so a user can maintain and repair it doesn't prevent people
from getting it repaired elsewhere.


most people don't do their own repairs, so making that easy to do is a
feature they'll never actually use.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
to remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


A couple screwdrivers. The skills are fairly low end and there a
gazillion sites showing how to do it elsewise. IOW another nonsense
reply of convenience from you.


the only nonsense replies are from you, who repeatedly resort to
insults.

you're assuming everyone is a geek. most people are not, and even those
who are geeks don't always want to open up computers to repair them.

i know quite a few people who make a *lot* of money making house calls
to upgrade user's hard drives, install software, set up a new computer,
etc., for both mac and windows systems.



it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision. Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters. Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity. I see why you admire it.


not everywhere has harsh winters, but regardless, the vehicle owner
takes it to the shop, the battery is replaced and they pick it up later
in the day.

it's exactly the same procedure no matter where in the vehicle the
battery is located.
 




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