ACR NEF mistake?

When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That
is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these
files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?


--
Sosumi

On Jan 29, 5:50 am, "Sosumi" wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That
is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these
files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?

--
Sosumi


It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than
any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good
job. The only gripe I have is that a slightly underexposed file will
have a little more noise when processed in ACR, proper exposure, there
is no problem. As to bracketing, ACR will show all brackets as will
Bridge which I use as my original viewing program. I have been using
ACR for the 2 years I have had my D200, tried Capture NX and decided,
though it had some interesting features it didn't give much more than
a well calibrated ACR. I have had excellent response to the work I
have done with the D200.

Tom

"Rita Berkowitz" wrote in message
...
tomm42 wrote:

It really isn't a big deal, ACR is very flexible and much quicker than
any of the Nikon products. Properly calibrated ACR does a very good
job. The only gripe I have is that a slightly underexposed file will
have a little more noise when processed in ACR, proper exposure, there
is no problem. As to bracketing, ACR will show all brackets as will
Bridge which I use as my original viewing program. I have been using
ACR for the 2 years I have had my D200, tried Capture NX and decided,
though it had some interesting features it didn't give much more than
a well calibrated ACR. I have had excellent response to the work I
have done with the D200.

Sadly Capture NX is a major resource hog and isn't laid out for optimum
workflow. NX does a nice job of processing RAW so much better than ACR,
but isn't a practical solution. Even getting a free copy of NX with my
D3,
I still feel like I overpaid and was cheated. I would have preferred an
AC
adapter. For general purpose shooting ACR is the way to go. When you
need
some serious correction on an image you are better off with NX.

I agree, it's far too slow. On Windows it depends on the Framework NET stuff
that should have been outlawed.
The other night I had 66 pictures in a batch process just sharpened and
saved again: 30 minutes at least!
But some things are just so darn good in NX, that ACR just can't even come
close. The control point is a very good example.

The picture I made was of a "black rose"; one of the most difficult objects
to make a good picture of. I made a multi exposure with auto gain, combined
with auto bracketing. in total 9 pictures in one frame. The result just took
my breath away; finally after trying with about 6 different dig. camera's
and months and a lot of roses ;-)
In NX View and Captu no problem, but when I tried to open it in PS it was
just another far too black and dark rose. I wanted to use some filters that
are not possible in NX, so I ended up saving it as a TIFF and then I worked
on it in PS.

Mostly I zip thru my pictures and pick the ones that look good, which isn't
that many on a given day, so I really don't have so much to change and
adjust anymore. It would be a different story if I had to process hundreds
of pics every day ;-)

But I agree, Capture should be included with all Nikons, because it's
virtually an extension of the camera. Maybe some they they'll turbo boost it
and allow to use third party filters like the ones for PS.


--
Sosumi

Sosumi wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture. That
is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these
files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?

Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
. net...
Sosumi wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture.
That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or
View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing these
files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?

Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?

Combined with multiple exposu yes! (oops: I wrote multi)

Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and
other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't.


--
Sosumi

"Sosumi" wrote in message
...

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
. net...
Sosumi wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture.
That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or
View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing
these files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?

Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?

Combined with multiple exposu yes! (oops: I wrote multi)

Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and
other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't.


--
Sosumi

What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
balance.
Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one
exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you
set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single
shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you
can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the same
as if you weren't bracketing.
There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
separate exposure as it normally would be.
What are we missing here?
Bob

"Robert Brace" wrote in message
news:ZRMnj.22479$4w.16339@pd7urf2no...

"Sosumi" wrote in message
...

"Paul Furman" wrote in message
. net...
Sosumi wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture.
That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or
View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing
these files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?

Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?

Combined with multiple exposu yes! (oops: I wrote multi)

Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and
other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't.


--
Sosumi

What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
balance.
Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one
exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you
set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single
shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you
can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the
same
as if you weren't bracketing.
There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
separate exposure as it normally would be.
What are we missing here?

I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple
exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9
different exposures.
After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in
PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not
recognized by ACR.
in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame
pictu in ACR you don't have this information.


--
Sosumi

Sosumi wrote:
"Robert Brace" wrote in message
news:ZRMnj.22479$4w.16339@pd7urf2no...
"Sosumi" wrote in message
...
"Paul Furman" wrote in message
. net...
Sosumi wrote:
When I took multi exposure pictures, ACR only shows the first picture.
That is, combined with bracketing. No problem with either Capture NX or
View NX.
Obviously, ACR can't read all information that Nikon software can. I
consider this a major flaw, because you have no way of ever editing
these files in PS or LTR.

Maybe it's time for an update, Adobe?
Exposure bracketing only produces one NEF file?
Combined with multiple exposu yes! (oops: I wrote multi)

Problem seems to be, that NX View and Capture take the control points and
other settings in consideration, while ACR can't or won't.

What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
balance.
Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one
exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you
set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single
shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you
can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the
same
as if you weren't bracketing.
There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
separate exposure as it normally would be.
What are we missing here?

I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple
exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9
different exposures.

Why? Unless it's an HDR type composite, the exposures will just average
out and the main difference would be less noise like people do for astro
imaging, right?

After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in
PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not
recognized by ACR.
in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame
pictu in ACR you don't have this information.

I wouldn't expect ACR know whatever tricks Nikon or any company does.
That's not any sort of standard exif data. Those are NX features, not
ACR features.

"Sosumi" wrote:
"Robert Brace" wrote:
What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
balance.
Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces one
exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If you
set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a single
shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF, you
can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the
same
as if you weren't bracketing.
There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
separate exposure as it normally would be.
What are we missing here?

I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple
exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9
different exposures.

Assuming the D300 is the same as the D3, there is no
such thing as "a combination of exposure bracketing with
multiple exposures".

You can use "exposure bracketing", which will give you 9
different images, each with a different exposure; or you
can use "multiple exposures", which will give you 1
image made up of a combination from 9 separate
exposures.

If you first set bracketing, you can then set multiple
exposures but it will automatically reset the bracketing
to 0 frames. And if you first turn on multiple
exposures, you cannot access bracketing to set it until
multiple exposures is off. (You can further test that
by setting bracketing to some non-zero value, then turn
on multiple exposures followed by turning it off... and
checking the bracketing again, which will now be 0F.)

Hence I assume that what you actually have done is
enabled multiple exposures, fired off 9 shots, and
therefore have one NEF file generated from those 9
exposures. Is that correct?

If you continued to make exposures after that, without
changing either the bracketing or the multiple
exposures, those options will both be OFF as of the 9th
exposure above. Following exposures will generate their
own NEF files, none of which will be either bracketed or
made up of multiple exposures. Is that what you are
getting?

After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in
PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not
recognized by ACR.

I'm not specifically familiar with any of that software.
It doesn't appear to actually be a software problem,
other than perhaps one program is not showing you as
much of the Exif data as the others. But that does
*not* change what the images are.

I take it that you are working with the NEF files
produced. You should be able to convert them to an
image format using virtually any RAW conversion
software, and then save the resulting file in whatever
format (JPEG, TIFF, PPM, etc) format you choose for
further editing with PS.

in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9 frame
pictu in ACR you don't have this information.

Does that make any difference? That's just a matter of
presentation of Exif data, not a difference in what the
images are or are not.

Here's a fairly simple test you can make to verify what
you are getting. Do this with an empty CF card in the
camera.

1) Set bracketing to 9 frames.
2) Set multiple exposures to 9 frames.
3) Make 8 exposures, and note that the light
indicating that it is writing to the CF card
does *not* go on.
4) Make the 9th exposure, and note that the
light now goes on indicating that it is
writing to the CF card. Wait for it to
finish and the light to go off.
5) Check the bracketing, by pushing down the
BKT button, and note that the display says
0F.
6) Make one more exposure, again noting that
the light again goes on. Wait for the light
to extinguish.

You can now take the CF card out, and download the two
images. If you have something like /exiftool/ to look
at the Exif data you will discover that the first image
indicates it was made with multiple exposures, while the
second image was not, and that both images used exactly
the same exposure (there was no bracketing).

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)

"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote in message
...
"Sosumi" wrote:
"Robert Brace" wrote:
What type of bracketing are you attempting? Exposure, flash or white
balance.
Normally, each push of the shutter (in single frame mode) produces
one
exposure. That means a uniquely numbered exposure for each push. If
you
set it for 3 exposures (normal, -1, +1) you get 3 separately numbered
frames. White balance bracketing would produce the 3 frames with a
single
shutter push, but still 3 separately numbered frames.
Now viewing these frames in Bridge or ACR (except if shooting NEF,
you
can't do white balance bracketing) you will see each separate frame the
same
as if you weren't bracketing.
There is no "only recognizing the first frame" as each frame is a
separate exposure as it normally would be.
What are we missing here?

I'm talking about a combination of exposure bracketing with multiple
exposure, both set to 9 frames. So what you get is *one* picture made of 9
different exposures.

Assuming the D300 is the same as the D3, there is no
such thing as "a combination of exposure bracketing with
multiple exposures".

You can use "exposure bracketing", which will give you 9
different images, each with a different exposure; or you
can use "multiple exposures", which will give you 1
image made up of a combination from 9 separate
exposures.

If you first set bracketing, you can then set multiple
exposures but it will automatically reset the bracketing
to 0 frames. And if you first turn on multiple
exposures, you cannot access bracketing to set it until
multiple exposures is off. (You can further test that
by setting bracketing to some non-zero value, then turn
on multiple exposures followed by turning it off... and
checking the bracketing again, which will now be 0F.)

Hence I assume that what you actually have done is
enabled multiple exposures, fired off 9 shots, and
therefore have one NEF file generated from those 9
exposures. Is that correct?

If you continued to make exposures after that, without
changing either the bracketing or the multiple
exposures, those options will both be OFF as of the 9th
exposure above. Following exposures will generate their
own NEF files, none of which will be either bracketed or
made up of multiple exposures. Is that what you are
getting?

After I worked on it in NX Capture, I wanted to add some filter effects in
PS, but all the nice things I added in NX were lost in PS or better: not
recognized by ACR.

I'm not specifically familiar with any of that software.
It doesn't appear to actually be a software problem,
other than perhaps one program is not showing you as
much of the Exif data as the others. But that does
*not* change what the images are.

I take it that you are working with the NEF files
produced. You should be able to convert them to an
image format using virtually any RAW conversion
software, and then save the resulting file in whatever
format (JPEG, TIFF, PPM, etc) format you choose for
further editing with PS.

in NX Capture and NX View you see at the camera settings that it's a 9
frame
pictu in ACR you don't have this information.

Does that make any difference? That's just a matter of
presentation of Exif data, not a difference in what the
images are or are not.

Here's a fairly simple test you can make to verify what
you are getting. Do this with an empty CF card in the
camera.

1) Set bracketing to 9 frames.
2) Set multiple exposures to 9 frames.
3) Make 8 exposures, and note that the light
indicating that it is writing to the CF card
does *not* go on.
4) Make the 9th exposure, and note that the
light now goes on indicating that it is
writing to the CF card. Wait for it to
finish and the light to go off.
5) Check the bracketing, by pushing down the
BKT button, and note that the display says
0F.
6) Make one more exposure, again noting that
the light again goes on. Wait for the light
to extinguish.

You can now take the CF card out, and download the two
images. If you have something like /exiftool/ to look
at the Exif data you will discover that the first image
indicates it was made with multiple exposures, while the
second image was not, and that both images used exactly
the same exposure (there was no bracketing).

Darn! You're right! I don't know how I screwed this up, but I could swear I
had that combination. Specially since I finally got a very good shot with
it. So I guess I'll try some "hand made" bracketing with multiple exposure.
Since that does work, I wonder why it can not be used together?
Someone told me it would not be any different than a single shot, but I'm
thinking the camera might still get a little more dynamic range. What do you
think?


--
Sosumi