Small SLR for travel

"fred" wrote in message

Is there something about the same size that's a manual SLR where we can
bracket, play with the shutter speed and f stops? Something that we
can still fit in a jacket or vest pocket? I'd rather not bring our
SLRs that we have now just because of the weight and bulk.


You don't say what lenses you will need, or why you consider your present
SLR to be inappropriate.

The Olympus OM-1 was a pretty small SLR, and it set the stage for Pentax's
introduction of the "M" ("Miniature") series of bodies and lenses. I don't
think that you will get an SLR that is significantly smaller than those
cameras.

If you want both manual AND automatic operation, look at the "P" series from
Pentax (Sorry, I am unfamiliar with other brands, although I am certain that
there are alternatives out there). The P3n or the P30t were only 1
millimeter taller than the original OM-1, and they were designed for the "A"
series of automatic lenses (manual focusing, but automatic exposure). Both
of those 2 models features metered manual mode, where YOU set the shutter
and aperture and you could accept the TTL meter;s recommended settings or
use whatever you wanted. There was also Program mode, where the camera
selected the fastest available shutter speed possible for the shot, based on
film speed. Great to stop action, but no control over the DOF because the
camera set the aperture. Also has shutter priority automatic mode, where
YOU set the aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed (stepless from 1
second to 1/1000) for correct exposure. That is the mode that I use most.
Finally there is an automatic flash mode when a dedicated Pentax flash is
used.

The "A" lenses, especially the normal lenses, are repudiated to have been
among the sharpest that Pentax ever designed. You can get them on eBay,
including lens, for under $100. I own 4 of them, all purchased on eBay, and
they all arrived in mint condition, because they were typically purchased
originally by amateurs and saw little use. A lot of amateurs shot only a
roll or two per year, so even after 15 years, the cameras had only 20 or 30
rolls run through them.

They had Seiko-Asahi electronic shutters that were more accurate than the
cloth-curtain shutters used in the older Spotmatics. They were lightweight
and very easy to carry about on a neck strap all day long.

I use them as my walkabout cameras, rather than overwork my Spotmatics and
ES models. I believe that they represent the best bang for the buck in film
SLRs without autofocus. And there are a number of low-priced zoom lenses
available if you require additional focal range. I carry a couple in my
bag, but I almost always use the 50mm f/1.7 SCMP-A normal lens.

If you decide to get one of these cameras (the P3n is black and the P30t is
titanium - gray) be sure to avoid the earlier model P3 or P30, because those
models did not have shutter-priority automatic mode, only program mode.
They sell for the same prices as their better cousins, because most people
don't know the difference, but you will definitely want the later models P3n
or P30t. They're so cheap you can get a couple of them as backups, and I
found them to be all I needed in terms of features.

fred wrote:
Hello -

I've been through a lot of the posts and still have some questions. My
wife and I have two point and shoots that we bring with us when we
travel - an Olympus and a Yashica. It's the old problem of wanting
more in a camera but not wanting much more in size. We can fit these
in our pockets and normally don't have problems with the pictures. We
got back from Utah though and have a lot of washed out prints.

Is there something about the same size that's a manual SLR where we can
bracket, play with the shutter speed and f stops? Something that we
can still fit in a jacket or vest pocket? I'd rather not bring our
SLRs that we have now just because of the weight and bulk.

I have a feeling I'm asking for too much and may have to bring the SLRs
we have but would love to find out that there is something out there.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

Maybe a used Pentax MX would suit You. Fairly small and all-manual, a
lot of used lenses around (and new of course).
Also to consider from Pentax are Me-Super and Super A which can be used
fully manually and are quite small and should be easy to find used. See
http://www.bdimitrov.de/kmp/
Hope this helps.

Väinö Louekari

jeremy wrote:
"fred" wrote in message
Is there something about the same size that's a manual SLR where we can
bracket, play with the shutter speed and f stops? Something that we
can still fit in a jacket or vest pocket? I'd rather not bring our
SLRs that we have now just because of the weight and bulk.


You don't say what lenses you will need, or why you consider your present
SLR to be inappropriate.

The Olympus OM-1 was a pretty small SLR, and it set the stage for Pentax's
introduction of the "M" ("Miniature") series of bodies and lenses. I don't
think that you will get an SLR that is significantly smaller than those
cameras.

If you want both manual AND automatic operation, look at the "P" series from
Pentax (Sorry, I am unfamiliar with other brands, although I am certain that
there are alternatives out there). The P3n or the P30t were only 1
millimeter taller than the original OM-1, and they were designed for the "A"
series of automatic lenses (manual focusing, but automatic exposure). Both
of those 2 models features metered manual mode, where YOU set the shutter
and aperture and you could accept the TTL meter;s recommended settings or
use whatever you wanted. There was also Program mode, where the camera
selected the fastest available shutter speed possible for the shot, based on
film speed. Great to stop action, but no control over the DOF because the
camera set the aperture. Also has shutter priority automatic mode, where
YOU set the aperture and the camera sets the shutter speed (stepless from 1
second to 1/1000) for correct exposure. That is the mode that I use most.
Finally there is an automatic flash mode when a dedicated Pentax flash is
used.

The "A" lenses, especially the normal lenses, are repudiated to have been
among the sharpest that Pentax ever designed. You can get them on eBay,
including lens, for under $100. I own 4 of them, all purchased on eBay, and
they all arrived in mint condition, because they were typically purchased
originally by amateurs and saw little use. A lot of amateurs shot only a
roll or two per year, so even after 15 years, the cameras had only 20 or 30
rolls run through them.

They had Seiko-Asahi electronic shutters that were more accurate than the
cloth-curtain shutters used in the older Spotmatics. They were lightweight
and very easy to carry about on a neck strap all day long.

I use them as my walkabout cameras, rather than overwork my Spotmatics and
ES models. I believe that they represent the best bang for the buck in film
SLRs without autofocus. And there are a number of low-priced zoom lenses
available if you require additional focal range. I carry a couple in my
bag, but I almost always use the 50mm f/1.7 SCMP-A normal lens.

If you decide to get one of these cameras (the P3n is black and the P30t is
titanium - gray) be sure to avoid the earlier model P3 or P30, because those
models did not have shutter-priority automatic mode, only program mode.
They sell for the same prices as their better cousins, because most people
don't know the difference, but you will definitely want the later models P3n
or P30t. They're so cheap you can get a couple of them as backups, and I
found them to be all I needed in terms of features.


I second everything Jeremy says. I was going to recommend the tiny Pentaxes
but I don't think they're significantly smaller than the OM. Personally I have
a couple of ME Supers that I use for portability, when my T90 is just too huge
and noisy.

I would be considering a small rangefinder camera if I wanted anything
smaller, although there may be a few AF compact cameras with manual modes.
Certainly quite a few digital compacts have manual modes; I have an old Nikon
Coolpix 4300 that has manual/Av/Tv/Program modes and even give manual focus as
if this was possible on the LCD!

Richard's comments made me remember the T90s little brother, the T70.

I have one and it's pretty darn small (compared to the T90 and/or the EOS
20D.)

A couple of AA batteries and a snappy compact FD zoom and "Bob's yer
uncle..." as they say.

Just another opionion, FWIW...

Good Luck

Jay Beckman
Chandler, AZ
www.pbase.com/flyingphotog

Jay Beckman wrote:
Richard's comments made me remember the T90s little brother, the T70.

I have one and it's pretty darn small (compared to the T90 and/or the EOS
20D.)

A couple of AA batteries and a snappy compact FD zoom and "Bob's yer
uncle..." as they say.


Nice but still no smaller than the OM, and heavier.

fred wrote:


in our pockets and normally don't have problems with the pictures. We
got back from Utah though and have a lot of washed out prints.

Hmm, have you tried polarising filters - assuming it was light blue skies
that got washed out.

Pete

"fred" writes:

We got back from Utah though and have a lot of washed out prints.
Is there something about the same size that's a manual SLR where we can
bracket, play with the shutter speed and f stops? Something that we
can still fit in a jacket or vest pocket? I'd rather not bring our
SLRs that we have now just because of the weight and bulk.

Note also that you CAN affect exposure in a compact camera as well, if
it's of an old enough variety You can fool the camera to over-
or underexpose by changing the ISO setting - IF it has one. The
too automatic ones probably don't.

The Canonet *does* have a good lens, but after 35 years they are notorious
for developing sticky leaf shutters. Also, they require mercury batteries
and are iffy in the electronics reliability. Although not as small or
elegant, the Yashica Electro 35 GSN can use modern batteries and has even
better optics. If you are set on a small SLR, I'd recommend a Pentax Super
Program, the best of the Pentax small SLR's, excepting the LX, which is
quite pricey even in the declining film SLR market.

Doug

wrote in message
oups.com...

fred wrote:
Hello -

I've been through a lot of the posts and still have some questions. My
wife and I have two point and shoots that we bring with us when we
travel - an Olympus and a Yashica. It's the old problem of wanting
more in a camera but not wanting much more in size. We can fit these
in our pockets and normally don't have problems with the pictures. We
got back from Utah though and have a lot of washed out prints.

Is there something about the same size that's a manual SLR where we can
bracket, play with the shutter speed and f stops? Something that we
can still fit in a jacket or vest pocket? I'd rather not bring our
SLRs that we have now just because of the weight and bulk.

I have a feeling I'm asking for too much and may have to bring the SLRs
we have but would love to find out that there is something out there.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.


I highly recommend the Canonet QL17 GIII. It's lens is legendary, some
call it the poor man's Leica. It is small with auto exposure and
manual exposure as well. Manual focusing, and oh so very easy to load
with film. It is an extremely high quality camera, as you will see
when holding it. Here is a link to a better description:

http://www.cameraquest.com/canql17.htm

They can be bought on ebay. But make sure the camera has had it's
light seals changed, as they were made in the early 1970's and back
then they used a type of foam to keep the light out. I bought my
Canonet from an ebay buyer who specializes in Canonets. He cleans
them, puts new lights seals in them, etc. They go for an average of
$130. US
A very good investment.
Good Luck!
Helen

"Phil Stripling" wrote:

For an SLR, you're not going to find anything that's pocketable. One of
the smaller SLRs is the Nikon FM family. I have an FM2n, which is fully
manual, not auto anything. It won't fit in pockets, though.

My Pentax 110 SLR fits nicely into a pocket, but I prefer to use the
belt clip. Alas, it's a program-mode only model.

In the Nikon line, the FG and N/F55 are both smaller than the FM2.
I think the smallest readily available Nikon SLR is the APS-based
Pronea S. I have one of these as my "car camera", and with a lens
like the 45mm f/2.8P you probably _could_ fit it in a large pocket.

The Pronea S does not offer full manual operation, but does offer
shutter- and aperture- priority modes with exposure compensation.

--
Michael Benveniste --
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email
address only to submit mail for evaluation.

Doug Robbins wrote:
The Canonet *does* have a good lens, but after 35 years they are notorious
for developing sticky leaf shutters. Also, they require mercury batteries
and are iffy in the electronics reliability. Although not as small or
elegant, the Yashica Electro 35 GSN can use modern batteries and has even
better optics. If you are set on a small SLR, I'd recommend a Pentax Super
Program, the best of the Pentax small SLR's, excepting the LX, which is
quite pricey even in the declining film SLR market.

Doug





That's the first time I've heard about the QL17 GIII having sticky
leaf shutters. There were other Canonets made as well, perhaps they
are the ones you are talking about? I know there are some Canonets
that do not have the same sharp lens as the QL17. Their lenses are
inferior to the QL17. But as far as needing a mercury battery, that no
longer applies. I can readily buy a battery for a small amount of
change on ebay. The PX625 is mercury-free. And they last at least a
year.
Helen