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bluring a messy background?



 
 
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  #11  
Old June 10th 09, 02:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default bluring a messy background?

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 16:47:32 -0700, John Navas
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:40:17 -0400, tony cooper
wrote in
:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:


For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.


Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?
[SNIP]


Because the program does a more realistic job than a simple Gaussian
blur, and is less work than multiple Gaussian blurs.


You have a poster who thinks the Blur Tool is a tool used to blur the
background. You think he can tell what a "better" job is?

Without seeing the image, I couldn't possibly decide what "better"
consists of. He says he has a photo of someone in a workshop and the
background is a distraction so he wants to blur it. Unless the image
is going on the cover of "Popular Woodworking", a simple Gaussian blur
will probably satisfy the OP.

I don't know why where Floyd came up with that suggestion for multiple
applications of a Gaussian blur. He specifically says he doesn't use
Photoshop. The multiple blur technique is used to reduce image noise
while blurring detail.

The OP would have to know what "image noise" is before he should worry
about this. When you know you have a PS novice, you give him the
simple steps.








--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #12  
Old June 10th 09, 03:09 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
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Posts: 5,138
Default bluring a messy background?

Dave Cohen wrote:
I don't use PhotoShop, but the method is rather
generic.


Keep the term *generic* in mind. This is not, was it was
explicitly stated, a PhotoShop method, nor specific to any
particular editor.

Note that when you add feathering it will go on both
sides of
the line where it is selected.


....

PhotoPlus feathers outwards. Not sure about others.


A better choice of words would have been to say that it may do
that. The point was, and is correct, that the reader, when
implementing this generic method using a specific editor, needs
to be precisely aware of how feathering affects the selection
borders.

I'm pleased that the only criticism has been over something
of no significance.

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #13  
Old June 10th 09, 03:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Floyd L. Davidson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,138
Default bluring a messy background?

John Navas wrote:
On Tue, 09 Jun 2009 19:40:17 -0400, tony cooper wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:


For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.


Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?
[SNIP]


Because the program does a more realistic job than a simple Gaussian
blur, and is less work than multiple Gaussian blurs.


That is true. The youtube.com video that you posted is
essentially the same as this description. Neither are
sophisticated enough to provide high quality results.

The multiple blurs method that I posted is sophisticated enough,
but if done manually it is exceedingly tedious for even one
image much less multiple images. (Of course I don't do it
manually, and long ago written a script that allows setting
various parameters and then merely waiting for it to finish.)

--
Floyd L. Davidson http://www.apaflo.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
  #14  
Old June 10th 09, 03:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Brian[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default bluring a messy background?

Thanks Floyd for the detailed step by step instructions.
Very helpful.

Regards Brian



(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:

Brian wrote:
I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?

I am using Adobe photoshop elements 7.


I don't use PhotoShop, but the method is rather generic.

First, do a selection that includes basically the part you
want to stand out. It does *not* have to be precise. Then
invert the selection so that it is everything you want to
be less obvious that is selected.

Then you want to "feather" the selection. But how much depends
on the resolution of your image and just how large the object
is. Set the value to enough pixels that a smooth gradient will
be produced, not a sharp transition that is obvious. This is the
first of a series, and each time the feathering will be greater.
This first one should be fairly thin.

Note that when you add feathering it will go on both sides of
the line where it is selected. Hence some of the feathered
selection will be outside of the area you want to blur, and
inside what you want to be sharp. Because of that, you'll want
to begin with very very mild adjustments. Blur the selection
with a setting that you can barely see, if at all. And then set
the contrast ever so slightly lower and perhaps brightness too.

After the first adjustments, decrease the size of the selected
area by about the same number of pixels as the amount of
feathering. Reset the feathering too, and use a slightly larger
number of pixels. Then do the same blur/contrast/brightness
adjustments, but with slightly greater values.

Repeat the above series. This should probably be done in at
least half a dozen increments. Eventually you get to a position
where the selection is half way from the edges of the image to
the area to be preserved, and it is then possible to set
feathering to the minimum width of the selected area and hit it
with the maximum blur that you want to show up at the edges.

  #15  
Old June 10th 09, 03:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Brian[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default bluring a messy background?

Thanks Tony for the useful information. It sounds like it's easy to
do.

Regards Brian

tony cooper wrote:

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

Jürgen Exner wrote:
Brian wrote:
I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?

Suggestion for next time: use a lens with a large apperture wide open,
thus creating a very shallow DOF.

jue


For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.


Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?

All you have to do is duplicate the background copy twice (Control J
twice), make the top layer active, turn off the "eye" in the bottom
two layers, create a selection of the whatever is in the foreground
that you want to remain in focus, inverse, and hit "delete". Then go
to the second layer, turn the eye on, and apply a Gaussian blur to
that level to the point where the background is sufficiently blurred,
turn the eye back on in the top layer, flatten, and save as a .jpg.
Some feathering may be appropriate in making the selection.

I have an extra couple of layers, but I do that because I want to be
able to dump a layer if I don't like what I've done.

The selection can be made with a layer mask, the Quick Mask, the Pen
Tool, or one of the lassos if working in full Photoshop. (Lasso or
Magic Selection Brush in Elements). The Eraser could be used, but
it's non-correctable.

The Blur Tool is not designed to blur a background. It's for blurring
small bits, and it's not very good at that. You could take the Blur
Tool and the Smudge Tool out of Photoshop and no experienced user
would miss it.

There must be 100 or more tutorials on line on how to make selections
and delete a background. The only difference here is that you are not
deleting the background completely. You are keeping it on a layer and
letting it show through around the sharp foreground part.

  #16  
Old June 10th 09, 03:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Brian[_9_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 24
Default bluring a messy background?

It's an interesting idea Marty. Does fogging the background make the
background duller or does it look like a room full of light smoke?

Regards Brian


Marty Fremen wrote:

Brian wrote:

I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?


Someone else mentioned lowering contrast which should work quite well. In
addition you could fog the background slightly to mute it: select the
background and then on a separate layer floodfill it with the dominant
background tone (which you could grab with the eyedropper) or possibly
just with a mid grey. Now adjust the opacity of the layer until it looks
natural (probably 10-20% opacity). You can improve the natural look by
partially erasing the tone where it is over things that are in a similar
plane to the subject.


  #17  
Old June 10th 09, 03:54 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default bluring a messy background?

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:30:35 +1200, Brian wrote:

It's an interesting idea Marty. Does fogging the background make the
background duller or does it look like a room full of light smoke?


Keep in mind that if you "fog" the background that you will also "fog"
the foreground unless you first make a selection of the foreground and
then "fog" only the layer under the selection. Any way you do it, you
have to make a selection to isolate that from whatever other steps you
take.



Marty Fremen wrote:

Brian wrote:

I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?


Someone else mentioned lowering contrast which should work quite well. In
addition you could fog the background slightly to mute it: select the
background and then on a separate layer floodfill it with the dominant
background tone (which you could grab with the eyedropper) or possibly
just with a mid grey. Now adjust the opacity of the layer until it looks
natural (probably 10-20% opacity). You can improve the natural look by
partially erasing the tone where it is over things that are in a similar
plane to the subject.



--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #18  
Old June 10th 09, 04:57 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
daveFaktor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default bluring a messy background?

tony cooper wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

Jürgen Exner wrote:
Brian wrote:
I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?
Suggestion for next time: use a lens with a large apperture wide open,
thus creating a very shallow DOF.

jue

For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.


Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?

All you have to do is duplicate the background copy twice (Control J
twice), make the top layer active, turn off the "eye" in the bottom
two layers, create a selection of the whatever is in the foreground
that you want to remain in focus, inverse, and hit "delete". Then go
to the second layer, turn the eye on, and apply a Gaussian blur to
that level to the point where the background is sufficiently blurred,
turn the eye back on in the top layer, flatten, and save as a .jpg.
Some feathering may be appropriate in making the selection.

I have an extra couple of layers, but I do that because I want to be
able to dump a layer if I don't like what I've done.

The selection can be made with a layer mask, the Quick Mask, the Pen
Tool, or one of the lassos if working in full Photoshop. (Lasso or
Magic Selection Brush in Elements). The Eraser could be used, but
it's non-correctable.

The Blur Tool is not designed to blur a background. It's for blurring
small bits, and it's not very good at that. You could take the Blur
Tool and the Smudge Tool out of Photoshop and no experienced user
would miss it.

There must be 100 or more tutorials on line on how to make selections
and delete a background. The only difference here is that you are not
deleting the background completely. You are keeping it on a layer and
letting it show through around the sharp foreground part.



What you describe is done with a slider after you determine the focus
point and the out of focus point. The value of the plugin is that it
transitionally blurs the image, just like a real one is.
  #19  
Old June 10th 09, 05:22 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Tony Cooper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,748
Default bluring a messy background?

On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:57:44 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

tony cooper wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

Jürgen Exner wrote:
Brian wrote:
I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?
Suggestion for next time: use a lens with a large apperture wide open,
thus creating a very shallow DOF.

jue
For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.


Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?

All you have to do is duplicate the background copy twice (Control J
twice), make the top layer active, turn off the "eye" in the bottom
two layers, create a selection of the whatever is in the foreground
that you want to remain in focus, inverse, and hit "delete". Then go
to the second layer, turn the eye on, and apply a Gaussian blur to
that level to the point where the background is sufficiently blurred,
turn the eye back on in the top layer, flatten, and save as a .jpg.
Some feathering may be appropriate in making the selection.

I have an extra couple of layers, but I do that because I want to be
able to dump a layer if I don't like what I've done.

The selection can be made with a layer mask, the Quick Mask, the Pen
Tool, or one of the lassos if working in full Photoshop. (Lasso or
Magic Selection Brush in Elements). The Eraser could be used, but
it's non-correctable.

The Blur Tool is not designed to blur a background. It's for blurring
small bits, and it's not very good at that. You could take the Blur
Tool and the Smudge Tool out of Photoshop and no experienced user
would miss it.

There must be 100 or more tutorials on line on how to make selections
and delete a background. The only difference here is that you are not
deleting the background completely. You are keeping it on a layer and
letting it show through around the sharp foreground part.



What you describe is done with a slider after you determine the focus
point and the out of focus point. The value of the plugin is that it
transitionally blurs the image, just like a real one is.


Link to it, then.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
  #20  
Old June 10th 09, 05:30 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
daveFaktor
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 68
Default bluring a messy background?

tony cooper wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 13:57:44 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

tony cooper wrote:
On Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:50:11 +1000, daveFaktor
wrote:

Jürgen Exner wrote:
Brian wrote:
I took a photo of someone in a shop and the background is distracting.
I tried to use the blur tool to blur the messy background but this did
not look right. Is there a better way of buring a background so a
person stand out and the background is not distracting to the viewer?
Suggestion for next time: use a lens with a large apperture wide open,
thus creating a very shallow DOF.

jue
For now... There is a Photoshop plugin for creating a Depth of Field map
which you can then use to blur the picture from the focus point back (or
forward). It's not free but it works exceptionally well if you are
willing to spend the time to learn how to use it properly.
Why in world would you buy a program to blur a background?

All you have to do is duplicate the background copy twice (Control J
twice), make the top layer active, turn off the "eye" in the bottom
two layers, create a selection of the whatever is in the foreground
that you want to remain in focus, inverse, and hit "delete". Then go
to the second layer, turn the eye on, and apply a Gaussian blur to
that level to the point where the background is sufficiently blurred,
turn the eye back on in the top layer, flatten, and save as a .jpg.
Some feathering may be appropriate in making the selection.

I have an extra couple of layers, but I do that because I want to be
able to dump a layer if I don't like what I've done.

The selection can be made with a layer mask, the Quick Mask, the Pen
Tool, or one of the lassos if working in full Photoshop. (Lasso or
Magic Selection Brush in Elements). The Eraser could be used, but
it's non-correctable.

The Blur Tool is not designed to blur a background. It's for blurring
small bits, and it's not very good at that. You could take the Blur
Tool and the Smudge Tool out of Photoshop and no experienced user
would miss it.

There must be 100 or more tutorials on line on how to make selections
and delete a background. The only difference here is that you are not
deleting the background completely. You are keeping it on a layer and
letting it show through around the sharp foreground part.


What you describe is done with a slider after you determine the focus
point and the out of focus point. The value of the plugin is that it
transitionally blurs the image, just like a real one is.


Link to it, then.


What am I? Your butler?
Look for it yourself Tony.
It's not like it hidden or something.
 




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