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Film scanners?



 
 
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  #41  
Old April 16th 17, 07:29 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
android
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Posts: 3,854
Default Film scanners?

In article ,
nospam wrote:

In article , android
wrote:

some things are best done at scan time, such as vuescan's
equivalent
of digital ice.

Digital ICE's in the hardware. The soft do or do not support
it.

digital ice uses infrared light for dust removal, created by
applied
science fiction (awesome company name), later bought by kodak.

vuescan has its own implementation of infrared dust removal.

It does not. Vuescan uses the infrared channel created by the
scanner
to
subtract dust. I.e. ICE...

that's what i said:
vuescan has its own implementation of infrared dust removal.

such as vuescan's equivalent of
digital ice.

Your wording suggest that you think that it's not. Whatever...

it's not exactly the same. it's equivalent.


From the main wiki:

"The ICE technology works from within the scanner, so unlike the
software-only solutions it does not alter any underlying details of the
image. Subsequent to the original Digital ICE technology, which used
infrared cleaning, additional image enhancement technologies were
marketed by Applied Science Fiction and Kodak under similar and related
names, often as part of a suite of compatible technologies. The ICE
technology uses a scanner with a pair of light sources, a normal RGB
lamp and an infrared (IR) lamp, and scans twice, once with each lamp.
The IR lamp detects the dust locations with its unique detection method,
and then inpainting is applied based on this data afterwards. The
general concept is to subtract the position of scratches and dust from
the RGB image."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_ICE


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_cleaning#Method
...Some software algorithms, such as the latest ICE implementation
(Nikon Super Coolscan LS-9000 ED with Digital ICE Professional[3]),
VueScan's[4] and SilverFast's,[5] claim to use infrared cleaning to
find dust spots even when scanning Kodachrome.

https://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc31.htm#filterinfraredclean
Filter | Infrared clean

When an infrared channel is available, use this option to remove dust
spots and scratches. It only causes image softening in the immediate
vicinity of the spots and scratches, except when this option is set
to "Heavy".

http://www.silverfast.com/highlights/isrd/en.html
...iSRD utilizes this behavior as follows. The image is scanned two
times - the first is the regular RGB scan and the second is the
additional infrared scan that captures defects like dust and
scratches only. Then the calculative dust and scratch removal takes
effect, only where the infrared channel has detected any defects
without losing any important details.


An equivalent to Digital ICE would not be that but something else.
Vuescan and the others above might have slightly different
implementations of Digital ICE...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/equivalent

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/implementation
--
teleportation kills
  #42  
Old April 17th 17, 12:18 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Peter Jason
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Posts: 288
Default Film scanners?

On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 13:22:54 +0100, newshound
wrote:

I realise that this question doesn't have a simple answer, but it is
time I started scanning some of my old 35 mm slides and negatives
(mostly b&w).

I would really welcome some comments or experience on hardware in the
"keen amateur" price bracket.

I know I can also "farm it out" but I'm interested in doing some myself
at least to get a feel for what results to inspect. Is there anything
which stands out towards the budget end in terms of value for money or
ease of use?

Thanks in advance

Steve


Cardboard-mounted slides are tricky because over time the board
degrades releasing filaments onto the emulsion. Handle them gingerly
and don't use a cleaning brush without afterwards air blowing.
  #43  
Old April 17th 17, 12:21 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Peter Jason
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Posts: 288
Default Film scanners?

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:29:30 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2017-04-15 08:22, newshound wrote:
I realise that this question doesn't have a simple answer, but it is
time I started scanning some of my old 35 mm slides and negatives
(mostly b&w).

I would really welcome some comments or experience on hardware in the
"keen amateur" price bracket.

I know I can also "farm it out" but I'm interested in doing some myself
at least to get a feel for what results to inspect. Is there anything
which stands out towards the budget end in terms of value for money or
ease of use?


Amidst the other suggestions also think about archival quality scans for
the "best of the best". So a dedicated scanner is the best choice.

Also "pre filter" your film and slides to select those that are worthy
due to content or quality.

Make sure the scanner had ICE (scratch, dust correction) - thought that
won't work on Kodachrome (not sure about B&W).

A lot of Minolta 5400 scanners out there as well on the used market.


I have a "Dimage Elite II"
Is there software to allow it to run on Windows10 ??
  #44  
Old April 17th 17, 12:27 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Film scanners?

In article , Peter Jason
wrote:


I have a "Dimage Elite II"
Is there software to allow it to run on Windows10 ??


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=dimage+elite+ii+windows+10

first hit.
  #45  
Old April 17th 17, 12:31 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Film scanners?

On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:03:09 +1200, Eric Stevens
wrote:

On 15 Apr 2017 13:00:12 GMT, Sandman wrote:

In article , newshound
wrote:

I realise that this question doesn't have a simple answer, but it is
time I started scanning some of my old 35 mm slides and negatives
(mostly b&w).


I would really welcome some comments or experience on hardware in
the "keen amateur" price bracket.


Hey, that's my bracket as well!

I use the Epson Perfection V750 Pro (now replaced with the 850 Pro) which
comes with inserts for 135 and 120 film as well as large format and slides.

Image quality is superb.

https://epson.com/For-Work/Scanners/...on-Perfection-
V850-Pro-Photo-Scanner/p/B11B224201


I have used an Epson V700 for years. This is basically the same as a
V750 but with a few less bells and whistles. I have scanned hundreds
(thousands?) of old films and slides and found it has done a better
than excellent job. It came with extensive software which enables
major corrections to be made at the scanning level. Highly
recommended.


The V700/750 come with Digital Ice built in.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #46  
Old April 17th 17, 12:42 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
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Posts: 24,165
Default Film scanners?

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:


The V700/750 come with Digital Ice built in.


built into the *software*.

the scanner itself has infrared illumination built in, which other
software can use for dust removal, it just can't be called digital ice.
  #47  
Old April 17th 17, 03:47 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default Film scanners?

On 2017-04-16 19:21, Peter Jason wrote:
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:29:30 -0400, Alan Browne
wrote:

On 2017-04-15 08:22, newshound wrote:
I realise that this question doesn't have a simple answer, but it is
time I started scanning some of my old 35 mm slides and negatives
(mostly b&w).

I would really welcome some comments or experience on hardware in the
"keen amateur" price bracket.

I know I can also "farm it out" but I'm interested in doing some myself
at least to get a feel for what results to inspect. Is there anything
which stands out towards the budget end in terms of value for money or
ease of use?


Amidst the other suggestions also think about archival quality scans for
the "best of the best". So a dedicated scanner is the best choice.

Also "pre filter" your film and slides to select those that are worthy
due to content or quality.

Make sure the scanner had ICE (scratch, dust correction) - thought that
won't work on Kodachrome (not sure about B&W).

A lot of Minolta 5400 scanners out there as well on the used market.


I have a "Dimage Elite II"
Is there software to allow it to run on Windows10 ??


I'd expect VueScan can handle it - check their site. That's a very good
scanner, BTW. Resolution is a bit on the low side, but great DR and ICE.


--
"If war is God's way of teaching Americans geography, then
recession is His way of teaching everyone a little economics."
..Raj Patel, The Value of Nothing.
  #48  
Old April 18th 17, 01:22 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Noons
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Posts: 3,245
Default Film scanners?

On 16/04/2017 12:02 @wiz, nospam wrote:

Film scanning is dead.

film is dead.


Really wrong.


really right.


Are you accusing me of necromancy?


film use may not be zero, but it's close to it and getting closer every
day.


Quite true. It's called a niche market.
Nothing wrong with it and no need to get tragic with the "dead" thing.

film sales have dramatically dropped off (kodak filed for bankruptcy,
polaroid is just a name), many films are no longer made (kodachrome
being the prime example), film cameras are no longer made (with very
rare exception and very, very few are sold) and very few places to
process film remain.


True. Is that the definition of "dead" where you come from?
Because here it's called a niche market.
And quite active too!

digital blows away film in every respect, although it can be downgraded
to look exactly like film for those who want that effect.


Akshally, completely wrong...
The only aspect where digital blows away film is in sensitivity- or ISO,
if you prefer that terminology.

Everything else? Nup. PArticularly in B&W, Yes, folks still use that.
In both digital and film!

Of course, I'd advise you to learn a little bit about scanning and film
before opening your trap again...

  #49  
Old April 18th 17, 01:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Noons
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Posts: 3,245
Default Film scanners?

On 16/04/2017 11:41 @wiz, Russell D. wrote:

The only thing that I can add to the mostly excellent advice already
given is to purchase VueScan. It is far superior to any of the software
that comes with scanners.

Russell



Echo that remark.
  #50  
Old April 18th 17, 02:17 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
-hh
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Posts: 838
Default Film scanners?

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 9:00:16 AM UTC-4, Sandman wrote:
newshound wrote:

I realise that this question doesn't have a simple answer,
but it is time I started scanning some of my old 35 mm slides
and negatives (mostly b&w).


I would really welcome some comments or experience on hardware
in the "keen amateur" price bracket.


Hey, that's my bracket as well!


Same here.


I use the Epson Perfection V750 Pro (now replaced with the 850 Pro) which
comes with inserts for 135 and 120 film as well as large format and slides.

Image quality is superb.

https://epson.com/For-Work/Scanners/...on-Perfection-
V850-Pro-Photo-Scanner/p/B11B224201


I originally started at work with a Nikon Coolscan LS-1000; think
this was far enough back that it ran on SCSI. Nice setup, although
it appears to now be 99.99% dead because of a combination of the
interface (SCSI) and not easily being able to find suitable drivers.
Kind of wish that I'd kept an old Mac on System 7/8 around for it.

For myself, I have a now-dated Epson flatbed scanner like Sandman;
the OEM software has gone obsolete, but OS X supports it adequately,
plus I think I have some third party (Viewscan?) that also does well.
It has a backlight system and does a good job on transparencies,
including some medium format stuff.

For $200 I picked up a dedicated 35mm Pacific Image USB scanner,
with the idea of pushing through more quantity. After some initial
proofing, I've not gotten back to the project.

My thoughts today are more lazy ^H^H pragmatic:

Set up the slide projector at home, with a dSLR on a tripod next
to it ... project, click, project, click ... this is a quick &
dirty way to get a halfway decent quality image quickly, which
is better than nothing.

My thoughts are that I'd do this as a pre-screening and also as
a "risk-of-loss" reduction step before I send a batch of stuff
out to a 3rd party service for bulk scanning. Similarly, for
any really important shots I come across the way, I'd DIY a
higher quality scan before I put them into the ship-em-out box.

What I've found that it really comes down to is that it is
still a challenge to make the time to grind through the film
collection, and when I finally do, two things hold me up:

- cleaning the images (especially Dad's old slides)
- the temptation to jump right into Photoshop to post-process

Overall, I think that what I'd probably do differently next
time that I take this on would be to define out a more "mass"
based workflow with discrete stages.

Stage 0: reorganize my workspaces. My current setup is
conveniently compact to fit into the home office space, but
this contrary to good productivity for this type of job.
This is where I wish that I had a "150ft long workbench"
to be able to spread stuff out.

Stage 1: pull out the material to be worked on; figure out
what batch size works.

Stage 2: cleaning in batches. Need both a dry & wet plan,
as stuff like Dad's old dusty slides are bad and won't clean
up with just a dry air blower.

Need to think about how much I care if the cardboard slides
have to be dismounted for cleaning.

Stage 3: material handling prep for going into whatever
scanning system (eg, remount slides?).

Stage 4: make the scan

Stage 5: data backup/archiving

Stage 6: post processing (what I've found to be my time suck)


Hope this helps,


-hh


 




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