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Ripe Apples



 
 
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  #21  
Old November 10th 17, 11:08 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 08:18:35 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
HP and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.


But it's not with desktop PCs.


yes with desktop pcs.

mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking.


You are changing the subject. We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.

not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
over.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.


A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.


absolutely wrong.


Why?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #22  
Old November 10th 17, 11:14 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 07:53:36 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 10 November 2017 07:04:33 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 20:46:04 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.


But it's not with desktop PCs.


How have you worked that one out ?


Sticking with subject of Dell vs Apple the data in the following link
(previously deleted by nospam) explains why I made that remark.

"They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple. See http://tinyurl.com/hoz6vdg or
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/04/11/apple-grows-to-74-of-worldwide-pc-market-as-windows-continues-to-cede-share-to-the-mac"



also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.


A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.


It does if you're trying to work out what people prefer it is key.
from about 1994 the head of department banned the purchase of mac because Apple were going out of business, so we in teching weren't allowed to buy Macs.
Those doing research that had grants told him we will buy what we want and they kept buying macs, mostly laptops.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #23  
Old November 10th 17, 11:16 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 03:40:16 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 22:39:05 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 13:58:17 -0500, nospam



not all repairs are that quick


No, some machines are not designed to give the repairer rapid access.


How long woud it take yuo to change a wheel on yuor car ?


So the formual one teams are really supid they have to employ loads of people to service a car brought in but they can change 4 tyres/wheels in less time that it take you to have a crap.

Can you understand why formula 1 cars are designed not to take as long as you do ?


How on earth do you think that that is relevant to what we were
discussing?
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #24  
Old November 10th 17, 11:23 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 08:18:36 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

users are not interested in being able to open the computer. they want
to get actual work done.


Which is why they don't want to sit around while someone buggers about
with small tools.


instead, they bring it to a repair shop and drop it off.


All of the high end commercially oriented Dell stuff can be fixed on
the spot without needing any tools.

For the people who don't have on-site on-call service they can be
fixed within minutes at the service center. It's called cost
effective.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #25  
Old November 10th 17, 11:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 02:57:48 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Thursday, 9 November 2017 20:50:51 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 07:49:00 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

It might be
an ugly SoB but that was largely because it was designed to hold a
wide variety of hardware which could be installed or replaced without
the use of any tools whatsoever.

it need not be ugly to do that.

It was Whisky-dave who said it was ugly.

he's right.


It didn't matter. It was out of sight under my desk.


So still takes up extra space, obviously under the desk is the designated place to put a desktop.
Why would you want to put a desktop PC under a desk ?
Was it really that ugly that yuo had to hid it under the desk ?


.... because it left me more room on the desk top.


When we had PC desktops under the desk they got filled with lots of dust and grime and got kicked by the students some got kicked over, but that's students for you. Our new desktop PC have been designed like iMacs so the screen and computer both sit on the desktop.

I don't have that problem of abuse or lack of maintenance.

I don't think it was ugly but
it was what it was and it was extremely utilitarian.

in other words, boring.


But practical.


But you put a desktop computer under the desk why , there must be some reason.


I told you above. Besides, I don't buy computers for their ornamental
qualities.



I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.

if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.


Two thumbscrews to get the side panel off. Unplug the drive. Flip the
lock open on the drive mount and slide out the drive. Slide in the new
drive, flip the lock closed, plug in the drive, refit the cover and
screws. An easy 10 minutes from power off to power on.


I just attach a drive to a USB port takes a few seconds, even though we have about 40 PCs in the lab we haven't had to change a drive in years.


Would you want to hang a drive on the kind of USB port circa 2000?

But we did for years run a course unit on hpw PCs work and how to change cards, discs and teh like from PC desktops, but that course has now been cancelled as we know the vast majority of uses don;t ever need to change the ethernet card or hard drive any more than the average car driver has to change their engine or headlights or 'gas' tank.

Don't tell that to nospam.


meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.



I should have labelled this 'Joke'.

I used to do that when I got bored. To add to the excitement I never
knew which drive did what and the behaviour on startup was quite a fun
lottery.


'End of Joke'.

yes some PCs users foud it fun, but those that wanted the computers to actually do what they purchased them for whether it was running word of photoshop find such thimngs a pain in the arse and really don't want to do it.

It;s like my grandparents they got food much cheaperr and for them it made more sense to go into the garden grab the chicken ring it's neck pluck it & cook it.
How many peolpe do that today they pop into a supermarket and get a pre-killed pre-plucked chicken, some go further as buy one al;ready in the bun, sure it;s more expensive but few opt for chasing chickens around the garden when KFC and the like can serve you one ready to eat, after all peoplpe mostly buy chicken to eat rathter than exercise or because they want to kill something.

I think the same happened with computers and now it has migrated to phones, I bet most would rather spend money on a batteru than manually use a generator to 'wind the phome up.
Maybe you;d prefer a winding handle on your phomne raher than have to pay for a battery and charging.


--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #26  
Old November 10th 17, 11:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,084
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I just attach a drive to a USB port takes a few seconds, even though we have
about 40 PCs in the lab we haven't had to change a drive in years.


Would you want to hang a drive on the kind of USB port circa 2000?


usb 2 existed then, so yes.

however, macs had firewire for several years prior, which was faster
than usb 2 and *muuuuuuuch* faster than usb 1.1.

But we did for years run a course unit on hpw PCs work and how to change
cards, discs and teh like from PC desktops, but that course has now been
cancelled as we know the vast majority of uses don;t ever need to change the
ethernet card or hard drive any more than the average car driver has to
change their engine or headlights or 'gas' tank.

Don't tell that to nospam.


too late.
  #27  
Old November 10th 17, 11:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,084
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
HP and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

But it's not with desktop PCs.


yes with desktop pcs.

mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking.


You are changing the subject.


nope.

We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.


yes we were.

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.

not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
over.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.


absolutely wrong.


Why?


common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.
  #28  
Old November 10th 17, 11:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,084
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

But it's not with desktop PCs.


How have you worked that one out ?


Sticking with subject of Dell vs Apple the data in the following link
(previously deleted by nospam) explains why I made that remark.

"They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share


once again, market share doesn't matter.

apple is about to become the first trillion dollar company, with it's
'tiny' market share.

apple has enough cash to buy dell *and* hp.

you also might want to actually read the url *you* gave:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/...worldwide-pc-m
arket-as-windows-continues-to-cede-share-to-the-mac"

Apple continued to grow overall Mac marketshare during the March
quarter as most leading Windows PC makers suffered significant
setbacks, according to the latest research data from Gartner and IDC.
....
Meanwhile, according to Gartner, Apple's worldwide shipments advanced
1 percent year-over-year to 4.6 million during the quarter, giving it
a 7.1 percent marketshare. HP by contrast saw units slide 9 percent,
while Lenovo dropped 7.2 percent. Dell lost just 0.4 percent, but the
only major PC maker to see growth was Asus, up 1.5 percent.
  #29  
Old November 10th 17, 11:55 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,084
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

users are not interested in being able to open the computer. they want
to get actual work done.

Which is why they don't want to sit around while someone buggers about
with small tools.


instead, they bring it to a repair shop and drop it off.


All of the high end commercially oriented Dell stuff can be fixed on
the spot without needing any tools.


nobody cares whether the onsite service person needs tools or not. they
just want it fixed.

you're also ignoring the time for the person to actually show up.

not that it matters, since high end commercial sites will have backup
systems ready for immediate service, often automatically.

even midrange sites and many low end ones have backup systems available.

For the people who don't have on-site on-call service they can be
fixed within minutes at the service center. It's called cost
effective.


as usual, you're ignoring the time to disconnect it, pack it up and
take it to the service center, wait for it to be fixed (even if it's
just a few minutes), drive back and reconnect everything.

of course, that only matters if it fails.

if it *doesn't* fail, then being able to fix it within minutes doesn't
make a difference.

put simply: dell *has* to offer fast repair because their products
*need* it.
  #30  
Old November 11th 17, 01:52 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Fri, 10 Nov 2017 17:55:12 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
HP and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.

market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

But it's not with desktop PCs.

yes with desktop pcs.

mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking.


You are changing the subject.


nope.

We were originally comparing Apple and
Dell who of the latter you wrote (above) "assemblers, including HP and
Dell are run by stupid people .... pretty much, and a very accurate
assessment of dell." We were not discussing the overall PC market.


yes we were.

just what do you think market share is about, if not the pc market?

hp, dell and apple are all part of the overall pc market.


But the data, the link to which you deleted showed that the "stupid
people" who run Dell have achieved twice the PC market share of Apple.
No wonder you deleted the link and are now trying to change the
subject.

not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
over.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.

absolutely wrong.


Why?


common sense.

do you really think those who buy a $200 netbook, a $1000 laptop, a
$2000 midrange system and a $5000 high end workstation are the same
sort of customers?

not only are the customers different, but the product specs will also
be different as well as the types of tasks done on them.


And their money is all equally good.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
 




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