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Ripe Apples



 
 
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  #11  
Old November 10th 17, 01:23 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Ken Hart[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 427
Default Ripe Apples

On 11/09/2017 03:59 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
On 2017-11-09 09:03, nospam wrote:


snip

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision.* Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters.* Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity.* I see why you admire it.


I can think of a half dozen people who are glad my Ford F-150 doesn't
require removing the wheel for access to the battery. Those half dozen
people are also glad I carry jumper cables to jump start their cars.

Making machines easy to service is a smart design decision, and not
always mutually exclusive with making machines optimum for everyday use.

(OTOH, I replaced my original equipment truck battery at eight years
here in southwest Indiana!)

--
Ken Hart

  #12  
Old November 10th 17, 01:49 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Ken Hart
wrote:

it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision.* Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters.* Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity.* I see why you admire it.


I can think of a half dozen people who are glad my Ford F-150 doesn't
require removing the wheel for access to the battery. Those half dozen
people are also glad I carry jumper cables to jump start their cars.


there are still battery terminals under the hood, so you'd be able to
jump start other cars or be jump started yourself without any issue
whatsoever.

it's *replacing* the battery, something you admit to not having done
for *eight* *years*, that would require a jack, which presumably you
also carry.

Making machines easy to service is a smart design decision, and not
always mutually exclusive with making machines optimum for everyday use.


sometimes it is.

for vehicles, putting rarely accessed components in normally empty
areas makes a lot of sense.

(OTOH, I replaced my original equipment truck battery at eight years
here in southwest Indiana!)


that's not unusual.
  #13  
Old November 10th 17, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open
up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all day
long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and other
products.


Computer repairers usually charge on the basis of time and that's a
good reason for making the replacement of parts quick and easy.


these days, it's usually a flat rate repair regardless of problem,
sometimes tiered depending on severity. same for cameras.



it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to be
removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last 5-10
years, that's a very good design decision.


That's a lousy design decision. It's even worse than having to remove
a wheel and the wheel-arch liner just to change a headlight bulb.


only if one has to repeatedly change bulbs. fortunately, modern bulbs
don't burn out very often (as in, outlasting the vehicle) and batteries
last much longer than they used to.
  #14  
Old November 10th 17, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.


if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.


Two thumbscrews to get the side panel off. Unplug the drive. Flip the
lock open on the drive mount and slide out the drive. Slide in the new
drive, flip the lock closed, plug in the drive, refit the cover and
screws. An easy 10 minutes from power off to power on.


the powermac g3, g4, g5 and mac pro had a pull-lever to open or remove
the side.

for the powermac g3/g4, the side flipped down without needing to shut
off the computer, which was useful for designing and testing pci cards.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2ucGgBJmyDkABGQ4.huge
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Nm4mRELLtcYI4YYI.huge

the powermac g4 cube had a pop-out handle:
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/FScb4AU52CGNDjhq.huge
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/BPGoOxpVpqOqwmjl.huge

more recent macs are not as easy to open and sell in vastly higher
quantities.

users are not interested in being able to open the computer. they want
to get actual work done.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.


I used to do that when I got bored. To add to the excitement I never
knew which drive did what and the behaviour on startup was quite a fun
lottery.


whatever excites you.
  #15  
Old November 10th 17, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.


pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.


They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.


market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.

that's also changing, as many companies are increasingly buying macs,
such as ibm and general electric, for example.
  #16  
Old November 10th 17, 02:46 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Alan Browne
wrote:

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not
open up their computer and swap parts all day long.

The usual asshat reply from nospam. People don't "swap parts all
day long". They do it when needed from time to time.


actually, they don't. the vast majority of users have someone else
repair their computer, just as they do with their cars, tvs and
other products.


A nonsense reply of convenience.

Having it so a user can maintain and repair it doesn't prevent people
from getting it repaired elsewhere.


most people don't do their own repairs, so making that easy to do is a
feature they'll never actually use.

When a drive is failing, failed or not large enough it is trivial
to remove and replace. About 10 minutes with most desktops.


only if someone has the skills and tools.


A couple screwdrivers. The skills are fairly low end and there a
gazillion sites showing how to do it elsewise. IOW another nonsense
reply of convenience from you.


the only nonsense replies are from you, who repeatedly resort to
insults.

you're assuming everyone is a geek. most people are not, and even those
who are geeks don't always want to open up computers to repair them.

i know quite a few people who make a *lot* of money making house calls
to upgrade user's hard drives, install software, set up a new computer,
etc., for both mac and windows systems.



it makes a lot more sense to optimize a computer for every day use,
versus something that *might* happen.

some cars have the battery in the wheel well, requiring a wheel to
be removed just to swap the battery. since car batteries usually last
5-10 years, that's a very good design decision.


No, it's a horrible decision. Batteries here rarely last 5 years due to
the harsh winters. Having to remove a wheel to even examine a battery
for its condition is absolute stupidity. I see why you admire it.


not everywhere has harsh winters, but regardless, the vehicle owner
takes it to the shop, the battery is replaced and they pick it up later
in the day.

it's exactly the same procedure no matter where in the vehicle the
battery is located.
  #17  
Old November 10th 17, 08:04 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 20:46:04 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

On a current iMac it can easily take an hour or more. Tedious. And no
reason to make it so difficult other than the Apple aesthetic.

the reason is that opening a computer is rarely done, if ever, and
optimizing for that scenario stupid.

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including HP
and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.


They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.


market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.


But it's not with desktop PCs.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.


A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.

that's also changing, as many companies are increasingly buying macs,
such as ibm and general electric, for example.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #18  
Old November 10th 17, 08:17 AM posted to rec.photo.digital
Eric Stevens
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,466
Default Ripe Apples

On Thu, 09 Nov 2017 20:46:03 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

I could swap
drives in it in a fraction of the time it took me to do the same task
in the Dell which followed it.

if all you do is open it and swap drives, then that's the computer to
get.


Two thumbscrews to get the side panel off. Unplug the drive. Flip the
lock open on the drive mount and slide out the drive. Slide in the new
drive, flip the lock closed, plug in the drive, refit the cover and
screws. An easy 10 minutes from power off to power on.


the powermac g3, g4, g5 and mac pro had a pull-lever to open or remove
the side.

for the powermac g3/g4, the side flipped down without needing to shut
off the computer, which was useful for designing and testing pci cards.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/2ucGgBJmyDkABGQ4.huge
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/Nm4mRELLtcYI4YYI.huge

the powermac g4 cube had a pop-out handle:


Which did what? You still needed tools to change a HDD.

https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/FScb4AU52CGNDjhq.huge
https://d3nevzfk7ii3be.cloudfront.net/igi/BPGoOxpVpqOqwmjl.huge

more recent macs are not as easy to open and sell in vastly higher
quantities.

users are not interested in being able to open the computer. they want
to get actual work done.


Which is why they don't want to sit around while someone buggers about
with small tools.

meanwhile, the rest of the world wants to do actual work, not open up
their computer and swap parts all day long.


I used to do that when I got bored. To add to the excitement I never
knew which drive did what and the behaviour on startup was quite a fun
lottery.


whatever excites you.

--

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #19  
Old November 10th 17, 02:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

By that reasoning, all PC box manufacturers and assemblers, including
HP and Dell are run by stupid people.

pretty much, and a very accurate assessment of dell.

They must be doing something right. They have twice the market share
of Apple.


market share doesn't matter and apple doesn't chase it anyway.

apple, with it's supposedly 'low market share', is on the verge of
becoming the first *trillion* dollar company, while hp, with 'twice the
market share of apple', is but a tiny fraction of apple, currently
about $35b.

if anyone is doing something right, it's apple.


But it's not with desktop PCs.


yes with desktop pcs.

mac sales are up while the overall pc market is shrinking.

not that it matters since the future is not desktop pcs. that game is
over.

also keep in mind that most of hp and dell sales are corporate
contracts, not end users, which is a totally different market segment,
something those who mindlessly spout market share numbers fail to
understand.


A desktop computer sold is a desktop computer sold. It doesn't really
matter who the buyer is.


absolutely wrong.
  #20  
Old November 10th 17, 02:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital
nospam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22,082
Default Ripe Apples

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

users are not interested in being able to open the computer. they want
to get actual work done.


Which is why they don't want to sit around while someone buggers about
with small tools.


instead, they bring it to a repair shop and drop it off.
 




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