This Lightroom Bug Could be Costing You Tons of Storage Space

In article .com,
Savageduck wrote:

Why would anyone use Tiff? Why not just leave the file in RAW format?

I didn't think you could edit a RAW file and save it back as RAW.
I thought TIFF files could be saved with LZW compression anyway.

Those of us who do this understand that the original RAW file is not
changed. It remains wherever is was originally downloaded to from the
camera, and LR "points" to it. After the RAW file is opened in PS,
and edited in PS, the edited version is "Saved As" a .psd, .jpg,
.tiff, or whatever. Both the edited file and the RAW file appear in
LR, but are not "in" LR.

apparently you don't understand as much as you think you do (no
surprise there), since any photo added to lightroom is 'in' lightroom.

this includes raws and anything round-tripped to an external editor.
it's also not a good idea to use save as..., certainly not to a jpeg.

For round trips Lightroom to Photoshop, and back is is always best to use
*Save* rather than *Save as*.

correct.

That way if you have a LR/PS RAW workflow, all
one should have in LR are RAW files, virtual copies of the RAW files, and
round trip externally edited psd, or tif files. I do not have any JPEGs in my
desktop LR Classic. When I need a JPEG for whatever reason I export from LR
to a separate location/folder, and that JPEG is not part of my LR Catalog.

also correct.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

Why would anyone use Tiff? Why not just leave the file in RAW format?

I didn't think you could edit a RAW file and save it back as RAW.
I thought TIFF files could be saved with LZW compression anyway.


Those of us who do this understand that the original RAW file is not
changed. It remains wherever is was originally downloaded to from the
camera, and LR "points" to it. After the RAW file is opened in PS,
and edited in PS, the edited version is "Saved As" a .psd, .jpg,
.tiff, or whatever. Both the edited file and the RAW file appear in
LR, but are not "in" LR.

apparently you don't understand as much as you think you do (no
surprise there), since any photo added to lightroom is 'in' lightroom.

this includes raws and anything round-tripped to an external editor.
it's also not a good idea to use save as..., certainly not to a jpeg.

No photos are "in" Lightroom. The photos are in the file where they
were downloaded to on import. LR is a database that contains a record
of where the actual file is located and can bring up that image for
editing, etc.

in other words, they're in lightroom and managed by lightroom.

you've had trouble understanding this concept in the past. i see
nothing has changed.

Of course it's a "good idea" to Save As when editing in PS when the
situation calls for it. An image may be edited in different ways and
saved as files with specific names or in specific crop ratios.

it's not.

all that's needed is to save. lightroom will track the photo, including
different versions of the same image.

save as... can work, but offers no benefit, more work by the end user
and the potential for data loss.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:22:34 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Apr 16, 2020, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In , Tony Cooper
wrote:


Why would anyone use Tiff? Why not just leave the file in RAW format?

I didn't think you could edit a RAW file and save it back as RAW.
I thought TIFF files could be saved with LZW compression anyway.

Those of us who do this understand that the original RAW file is not
changed. It remains wherever is was originally downloaded to from the
camera, and LR "points" to it. After the RAW file is opened in PS,
and edited in PS, the edited version is "Saved As" a .psd, .jpg,
.tiff, or whatever. Both the edited file and the RAW file appear in
LR, but are not "in" LR.

apparently you don't understand as much as you think you do (no
surprise there), since any photo added to lightroom is 'in' lightroom.

this includes raws and anything round-tripped to an external editor.
it's also not a good idea to use save as..., certainly not to a jpeg.

For round trips Lightroom to Photoshop, and back is is always best to use *Save* rather than *Save as*. That way if you have a LR/PS RAW workflow, all one should have in LR are RAW files, virtual copies of the RAW files, and round trip externally edited psd, or tif files. I do not have any JPEGs in my desktop LR Classic. When I need a JPEG for whatever reason I export from LR to a separate location/folder, and that JPEG is not part of my LR Catalog.

However, when it comes to LR on my iPad, or iPhone I will load select JPEGs along with RAW files. I also use the camera app in LR for iOS to make captures as DNGs rather than jpg, or png. Those are synced with LR CC, or online LR CC on my desktop rather than LR Classic which maintains its version of social distancing with regard to JPEGs.

To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

Save As is useful for creating multiple versions with different file
names and/or different treatments in PS. You can work on an image in
PS, Save As to retain that version, Revert, do it a different way and
Save As to retain that version. You can assign file names in Save As
that fit the user's scheme...eg: 2020-04-16-5x7 and 2020-04-16-8x10
and 2020-04-16-8x10V. (v indicating with vignette).

We all know nospam's modus operendi. He will argue forever that
anything done in a way that he doesn't do things is the wrong way to
do it.

He's about to argue that "in" means "visible", but he's wrong. "In"
refers to location, and the file is not located in LR. LR merely
gives you access to the file where it is located.

Delete that file not using LR in the location where it was imported
to, and LR will still present that file visibly. But, because it
isn't in LR, it's no longer accessible.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:



Those of us who do this understand that the original RAW file is not
changed. It remains wherever is was originally downloaded to from the
camera, and LR "points" to it. After the RAW file is opened in PS,
and edited in PS, the edited version is "Saved As" a .psd, .jpg,
.tiff, or whatever. Both the edited file and the RAW file appear in
LR, but are not "in" LR.

apparently you don't understand as much as you think you do (no
surprise there), since any photo added to lightroom is 'in' lightroom.

this includes raws and anything round-tripped to an external editor.
it's also not a good idea to use save as..., certainly not to a jpeg.

For round trips Lightroom to Photoshop, and back is is always best to use
*Save* rather than *Save as*. That way if you have a LR/PS RAW workflow, all
one should have in LR are RAW files, virtual copies of the RAW files, and
round trip externally edited psd, or tif files. I do not have any JPEGs in
my desktop LR Classic. When I need a JPEG for whatever reason I export from
LR to a separate location/folder, and that JPEG is not part of my LR
Catalog.

However, when it comes to LR on my iPad, or iPhone I will load select JPEGs
along with RAW files. I also use the camera app in LR for iOS to make
captures as DNGs rather than jpg, or png. Those are synced with LR CC, or
online LR CC on my desktop rather than LR Classic which maintains its
version of social distancing with regard to JPEGs.

To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

nope. best is an objective measurement.

*preference* is a user's choice, even if it's not the best method.

learn the difference between the two.

Save As is useful for creating multiple versions with different file
names and/or different treatments in PS. You can work on an image in
PS, Save As to retain that version, Revert, do it a different way and
Save As to retain that version. You can assign file names in Save As
that fit the user's scheme...eg: 2020-04-16-5x7 and 2020-04-16-8x10
and 2020-04-16-8x10V. (v indicating with vignette).

save as... is useful for creating problems, which is very obvious from
your workflow description.

multiple versions can easily be done using save.

learn how to use lightroom and photoshop to their fullest potential
before making further comments.

We all know nospam's modus operendi. He will argue forever that
anything done in a way that he doesn't do things is the wrong way to
do it.

as usual, you resort to attacks because nothing you've said is
supported by facts.

He's about to argue that "in" means "visible", but he's wrong. "In"
refers to location, and the file is not located in LR. LR merely
gives you access to the file where it is located.

wrong on many levels.

'in' does *not* mean visible, nor does it refer to its location. where
in the world did you come up with that rubbish??

claiming that i will argue for something that is not true shows how
little you understand about what's actually happening and that you're
only interested in arguing.

Delete that file not using LR in the location where it was imported
to, and LR will still present that file visibly. But, because it
isn't in LR, it's no longer accessible.

wrong again.

the photo is still in lightroom because you went behind lightroom's
back and deleted the file from under it. lightroom has no way to know
you did that and doing that will cause all sorts of problems.

On Apr 16, 2020, Tony Cooper wrote
(in ):

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 06:22:34 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:

On Apr 16, 2020, nospam wrote
(in ) :

In , Tony Cooper
wrote:


Why would anyone use Tiff? Why not just leave the file in RAW format?

I didn't think you could edit a RAW file and save it back as RAW.
I thought TIFF files could be saved with LZW compression anyway.

Those of us who do this understand that the original RAW file is not
changed. It remains wherever is was originally downloaded to from the
camera, and LR "points" to it. After the RAW file is opened in PS,
and edited in PS, the edited version is "Saved As" a .psd, .jpg,
.tiff, or whatever. Both the edited file and the RAW file appear in
LR, but are not "in" LR.

apparently you don't understand as much as you think you do (no
surprise there), since any photo added to lightroom is 'in' lightroom.

this includes raws and anything round-tripped to an external editor.
it's also not a good idea to use save as..., certainly not to a jpeg.

For round trips Lightroom to Photoshop, and back is is always best to use *Save* rather than *Save as*. That way if you have a LR/PS RAW workflow, all one should have in LR are RAW files, virtual copies of the RAW files, and round trip externally edited psd, or tif files. I do not have any JPEGs in my desktop LR Classic. When I need a JPEG for whatever reason I export from LR to a separate location/folder, and that JPEG is not part of my LR Catalog.

However, when it comes to LR on my iPad, or iPhone I will load select JPEGs along with RAW files. I also use the camera app in LR for iOS to make captures as DNGs rather than jpg, or png. Those are synced with LR CC, or online LR CC on my desktop rather than LR Classic which maintains its version of social distancing with regard to JPEGs.

To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

With both Photoshop and Lightroom customizing one’s workflow to meet one’s own eccentricity has always been a great feature of both LR & PS. Sometimes one particular workflow might seem wrong to somebody using their *right* way, but as we know there are many ways to get some things done in both LR and PS. Some can be more awkward than others, but will still get you to a similar result.


Save As is useful for creating multiple versions with different file
names and/or different treatments in PS. You can work on an image in
PS, Save As to retain that version, Revert, do it a different way and
Save As to retain that version. You can assign file names in Save As
that fit the user's scheme...eg: 2020-04-16-5x7 and 2020-04-16-8x10
and 2020-04-16-8x10V. (v indicating with vignette).

I go about that in a different way if I want, or need different PS versions/treatments.

If I actually need to use a round trip to PS from LR it is usually because I intend to do some layered edits. I will *Save* that initial final layered PS edit back to LR with the layers intact. If I then want to revisit that version to refine, I can open it from LR with the layers intact to selectively adjust, remove, or replace layers as needed. Then it gets saved back to LR, usually as a second, or third layered tif.

I use the LR export dialog extensively for changing file types, renaming, resizing, etc. I have LR Export presets for various tasks such as exporting to Dropbox.


We all know nospam's modus operendi. He will argue forever that
anything done in a way that he doesn't do things is the wrong way to
do it.

True. However, there are times he is closer to correct than completely wrong regardless of his fondness of arguing and needing the last word.

He's about to argue that "in" means "visible", but he's wrong. "In"
refers to location, and the file is not located in LR. LR merely
gives you access to the file where it is located.

I think he believes that he is the only one who understands how anything works regardless of the individual experience of some of us who have used Adobe software in a manner which suits our particular workflow for years.


Delete that file not using LR in the location where it was imported
to, and LR will still present that file visibly. But, because it
isn't in LR, it's no longer accessible.

An understanding of the LR catalog/file system can help removing any confusion.

--
Regards,
Savageduck

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:22:12 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:



To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

With both Photoshop and Lightroom customizing one’s workflow to meet one’s own eccentricity has always been a great feature of both LR & PS. Sometimes one particular workflow might seem wrong to somebody using their *right* way, but as we know there are many ways to get some things done in both LR and PS. Some can be more awkward than others, but will still get you to a similar result.


Save As is useful for creating multiple versions with different file
names and/or different treatments in PS. You can work on an image in
PS, Save As to retain that version, Revert, do it a different way and
Save As to retain that version. You can assign file names in Save As
that fit the user's scheme...eg: 2020-04-16-5x7 and 2020-04-16-8x10
and 2020-04-16-8x10V. (v indicating with vignette).

I go about that in a different way if I want, or need different PS versions/treatments.

If I actually need to use a round trip to PS from LR it is usually because I intend to do some layered edits. I will *Save* that initial final layered PS edit back to LR with the layers intact. If I then want to revisit that version to refine, I can open it from LR with the layers intact to selectively adjust, remove, or replace layers as needed. Then it gets saved back to LR, usually as a second, or third layered tif.

I use the LR export dialog extensively for changing file types, renaming, resizing, etc. I have LR Export presets for various tasks such as exporting to Dropbox.


We all know nospam's modus operendi. He will argue forever that
anything done in a way that he doesn't do things is the wrong way to
do it.

True. However, there are times he is closer to correct than completely wrong regardless of his fondness of arguing and needing the last word.

He's like herpes. It never goes away.


He's about to argue that "in" means "visible", but he's wrong. "In"
refers to location, and the file is not located in LR. LR merely
gives you access to the file where it is located.

I think he believes that he is the only one who understands how anything works regardless of the individual experience of some of us who have used Adobe software in a manner which suits our particular workflow for years.


He also believes that all arguments must contain insulting comments
from him that the other person doesn't understand anything. However,
when he is accused of not understanding something, he whines about it
being an ad hominem attack.


Delete that file not using LR in the location where it was imported
to, and LR will still present that file visibly. But, because it
isn't in LR, it's no longer accessible.

An understanding of the LR catalog/file system can help removing any confusion.

If he thinks his photos are "in" LR, all he has to do is delete the LR
catalog. All of those images that he thinks were "in" that LR catalog
will remain in place on his computer.

Have you changed newsreaders? I don't remember your posts showing
those wide line widths before.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:09:37 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:22:12 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:



To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

Have you changed newsreaders? I don't remember your posts showing
those wide line widths before.

I've been meaning to bring this up, but now that there are at least
two of us, Duck's posts are not word wrapping anymore. I thought it
might be my newsreader, but maybe not. Then again, you and I are using
the same reader, so it could be Agent.

In article , Bill W
wrote:


Have you changed newsreaders? I don't remember your posts showing
those wide line widths before.

I've been meaning to bring this up, but now that there are at least
two of us, Duck's posts are not word wrapping anymore. I thought it
might be my newsreader, but maybe not. Then again, you and I are using
the same reader, so it could be Agent.

his posts soft-wrap to whatever window size *you* set, which is how it
should be. that way, *you* decide how it appears, based on your own
personal preference.

having everything hard-wrapped at 72 characters is both silly and
incredibly wasteful in the age of large displays.

this is nothing new. email apps have been doing it since at least the
90s.

if agent can't handle that, then it's yet another problem with agent.

In article , Tony Cooper
wrote:

We all know nospam's modus operendi. He will argue forever that
anything done in a way that he doesn't do things is the wrong way to
do it.

True. However, there are times he is closer to correct than completely wrong
regardless of his fondness of arguing and needing the last word.

He's like herpes. It never goes away.


He's about to argue that "in" means "visible", but he's wrong. "In"
refers to location, and the file is not located in LR. LR merely
gives you access to the file where it is located.

I think he believes that he is the only one who understands how anything
works regardless of the individual experience of some of us who have used
Adobe software in a manner which suits our particular workflow for years.


He also believes that all arguments must contain insulting comments
from him that the other person doesn't understand anything. However,
when he is accused of not understanding something, he whines about it
being an ad hominem attack.

there you go again with more attacks.

i call you out (or anyone else) whenever you resort to insults rather
than discuss the topic, as you've repeatedly done above.

try to stick to the topic for a change, and maybe even learn something.

Delete that file not using LR in the location where it was imported
to, and LR will still present that file visibly. But, because it
isn't in LR, it's no longer accessible.

An understanding of the LR catalog/file system can help removing any
confusion.

If he thinks his photos are "in" LR, all he has to do is delete the LR
catalog. All of those images that he thinks were "in" that LR catalog
will remain in place on his computer.

you *really* don't understand how lightroom works, or for that matter,
how computers and apps work in general.

if you understood even a little bit, you wouldn't have said the above.

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:15:04 -0500, Bill W
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 12:09:37 -0400, Tony Cooper
wrote:

On Thu, 16 Apr 2020 08:22:12 -0700, Savageduck
wrote:



To me, the point is not to Save or to Save As, but that either can be
done if the user has a reason to do so. It's a choice available to
the user, and different users have reasons to do it different ways.
"Best" is the user's choice.

Have you changed newsreaders? I don't remember your posts showing
those wide line widths before.

I've been meaning to bring this up, but now that there are at least
two of us, Duck's posts are not word wrapping anymore. I thought it
might be my newsreader, but maybe not. Then again, you and I are using
the same reader, so it could be Agent.

Cue the usual suspect to start accusing us of using a "broken"
newsreader.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida