Depth of field - two of them?

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 05:32:36 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 15 February 2019 00:36:19 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Thu, 14 Feb 2019 05:45:34 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Wednesday, 13 February 2019 23:17:48 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 03:20:00 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Tuesday, 12 February 2019 23:56:02 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 06:30:28 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Saturday, 9 February 2019 07:55:47 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 8 Feb 2019 02:41:17 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Friday, 8 February 2019 01:34:02 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Tue, 05 Feb 2019 22:58:47 -0600, Bill W
wrote:

On Wed, 06 Feb 2019 16:51:50 +1300, Eric Stevens
wrote:

Upload
speeds are about 25% of the upload speeds.

they should be the same.

In my case they are throttled.

your isp might be asymmetric, but that has nothing to do with the ipad.

But it is a factor in why I don't like using it for applications such
as Google.

I really hate to ask this, but are you using an ipad you got from a
cellular company? If so, are you sure it is switching over to wifi at
home? I ask this only because that was the issue my sister had.

It's a 3rd generation iPad I bought from Apple many years ago. It's
got lots of memory and room for a sim card but I have never got around
to installing one.

This show you have little understanding of an iPad.
The SIM card isn't for storage it'll just allow you to use a cellular network.

Has nospam recently given you a transfusion. I wasn't attributing
anything to the sim card (or not). I was meely describing the iPad.

How do Aple describe such ipads ?
it's Wifi or wifi and cellular .

Why mention the SIM ?

To help discriminate my iPad from other possible models of iPad.

Not that it does that as your ipad isn't the only one to have a SIM slot, which has nothing to do with memory anyway.
It's like saying yuor car has a stereo CD players to help narrow down the model number.

That would have made a difference if not all models of that car had CD
players.

But it doesn't help you ID the actual car does it, and would only be useful after yuo know what car it came with.

But I did ID the actual iPad.

Yes and from that we found that it is 7 years old, which is a bit old now, you did recently replace your PC didn't you IIRC that was 8 years old so why did you replace it because your network was slow ?

I replaced my PC because it was getting to the point where it was on
the verge of being able to run the latest software, such as the
current Adobe update. Before you sk, I haven't replaced the iPad
because non of the tasks I use it for are demanding and it continues
to do everything I want.

It takes up space. Something probably had to be replaced or modified
to make room for it.

No they allowed for it in the orginal design.


I have no idea of what, if anything, might have
been affected. So I told you.

Well I did get that impression that you thought it changed something else about the ipad, other than the price and the visual differnce there's nothing else you'll find differnt.
I doubt you'll notice the extra weight of 0.02 pounds the ipads are the same size too.

Might have changed something.

You sound like one of my students, looking for an excuse on why their circuit doesn't work. i.e a faulty product ?, no a faulty student.

Cannot you recognize that I was trying to make sure that I was trying
to ensure that I did not omit telling you something you might need to
know? I would rather tell you too much rather than too little.

I was hoping to avoid a later song and
dance from you or nospam if you later found out and it made a
difference. But I seem to be getting the song and dance anyway.

So admit you are wrong or you got the wrong impression.

What am I supposed to be wrong about?

Or why you expect a 7 year old iPad3 to be the same speed as a new PC.

I don't.

I've never complined that the old PC laptop from 2003 I have running W98, who's battery takes 4 hours to charge and then last 10 mins is not as good as my iMac or a macbook pro.

Neither did I make the equivalent complaint. What I did say was that I
very much prefer to do things on my desktop rather than the iPad. I
gave several reasons, one of which was related to the speed of the
wifi link. First nospam and now you have latched on to this as being
my primary complaint. Well it isn't and it never was.

AS I said if yuo want to compare wifi speeds then I'll, put my iphone7 against your wired PC.

Just a click or two will prove the point.
Which is best my iphone or your PC.


https://www.speedtest.net/

This argument is getting silly. I'm giving up on it now.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 09:32:11 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

And then the ISP
help desk would want me to take my laptop downstairs to wire connect
to the router. It didn't help that I didn't have a laptop and only
had
wifi connection to my desktop.

use the ipad.

Ethernet?

you said you had a *wired* connection to your desktop in another post,
one reason why it's faster than the ipad.

the story changes once again.

Nothing has changed axcept, perhaps, you understanding.

nope.

you first claimed that one reason why search speeds were different was
because the ipad was on wifi and the desktop wired.

As I recall, I gave several factors and wifi was but one of them.

yep, and they were bogus.

the point is that you said the desktop was wired.

now you say the desktop was *also* on wifi.

It was originally. It is not now.

which is what i just said.

Your understanding of the meaning of words seems to be different from
mine. Different from most people's in fact.

something changed.

Yep. I installed ethernet cabling. I told you about that.

in other words, something changed.

why did you say nothing changed?

When?

in any event, ethernet is not required to reconfigure a router unless
wifi is off, which if your desktop has a wifi connection, it clearly is
not.

The original router could not be configured by wifi.

the router you linked absolutely can.

That was not the original router.

in other words, something else also changed.

why did you say nothing changed?

When?


if you had a different router than what you linked, then that's yet
another thing that has changed.

Yes it has. But my comments apply to my current setup.

then why did you bring up the previous setup?

To answer one of your questions.

it's really hard to keep up with all these changes.

and actually, i've yet to see a wifi router that can't be configured
via wifi. they normally default with wifi on because it's often easier
to configure it wirelessly, plus many users won't even have a wired
device at all. more recently, they are set up via a mobile app.

given that your desktop and ipad were connected via wifi, we know for a
fact that wifi was on, therefore the router could easily have been
configured wirelessly.

if the help desk tells you otherwise, ask to talk to someone who is
actually competent. better yet, find another isp.

I may not have quite made this clear. In the first year of the
installation of the high speed fibre connection (internet and
telephone) some kind of **** in the system would scramble the router's
brains.

nonsense. complete utter nonsense.

I'm glad you know these things.

Once this happened I was not able to communicate with the
router from my desktop. I could perform a factory reset but the only
way to proceed from there was, according to both the manual, via one
of the RJ45 ports.

post a link to the manual.

I no longer have it and while I think it was called a Triple Play I
have no idea of what model it was. If you Google Triple Play and
Slingshot (ISP) you will find that it was an endless source of
trouble, even when subject to a factory reset.


Fortunately, early in the piece I was passed on to
one of the more knowledgable people at my ISP who was able to sort out
my router from his end.

then the problem was at the isp's end and the router's brains were not
scrambled.

Not so.

I was extremely glad to later get my current better router and later
still to abandon wifi for ethernet.

the router you have is not particularly good. rather ****ty, in fact.

replace it, if for no other reason, for better security as well as
faster wifi.

Whatever it is, it will also have to support telephone software.

and as i told you before in another post, ios devices support wired
ethernet.

But I don't have the setup. Nor am I likely to have it.

your loss.

Nope. I've got a very adequate desk top.

i wasn't referring to that.

I was. As I've already told whiskydave, I'm now abandoning this
discussion.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

And then the ISP
help desk would want me to take my laptop downstairs to wire
connect
to the router. It didn't help that I didn't have a laptop and only
had wifi connection to my desktop.

use the ipad.

Ethernet?

you said you had a *wired* connection to your desktop in another post,
one reason why it's faster than the ipad.

the story changes once again.

Nothing has changed axcept, perhaps, you understanding.

nope.

you first claimed that one reason why search speeds were different was
because the ipad was on wifi and the desktop wired.

As I recall, I gave several factors and wifi was but one of them.

yep, and they were bogus.

the point is that you said the desktop was wired.

now you say the desktop was *also* on wifi.

It was originally. It is not now.

which is what i just said.

Your understanding of the meaning of words seems to be different from
mine. Different from most people's in fact.

i understand it quite well, which is that your story keeps changing.

something changed.

Yep. I installed ethernet cabling. I told you about that.

in other words, something changed.

why did you say nothing changed?

When?

scroll up and you'll see this:
Nothing has changed axcept, perhaps, you understanding.

what does 'nothing has changed' mean to you?

it looks like it's *your* understanding of the meaning of words is
different from everyone else.

in any event, ethernet is not required to reconfigure a router unless
wifi is off, which if your desktop has a wifi connection, it clearly is
not.

The original router could not be configured by wifi.

the router you linked absolutely can.

That was not the original router.

in other words, something else also changed.

why did you say nothing changed?

When?

scroll up and you'll see this:
Nothing has changed axcept, perhaps, you understanding.

what does 'nothing has changed' mean to you?

it looks like it's *your* understanding of the meaning of words is
different from everyone else.

if you had a different router than what you linked, then that's yet
another thing that has changed.

Yes it has. But my comments apply to my current setup.

then why did you bring up the previous setup?

To answer one of your questions.

it didn't.



I may not have quite made this clear. In the first year of the
installation of the high speed fibre connection (internet and
telephone) some kind of **** in the system would scramble the router's
brains.

nonsense. complete utter nonsense.

I'm glad you know these things.

thanks. so am i.

Once this happened I was not able to communicate with the
router from my desktop. I could perform a factory reset but the only
way to proceed from there was, according to both the manual, via one
of the RJ45 ports.

post a link to the manual.

I no longer have it and while I think it was called a Triple Play I
have no idea of what model it was. If you Google Triple Play and
Slingshot (ISP) you will find that it was an endless source of
trouble, even when subject to a factory reset.

this is what i found:
https://help.slingshot.co.nz/hc/en-u...53-How-do-I-ac
cess-my-Slingshot-router-

any of those look familiar?

Fortunately, early in the piece I was passed on to
one of the more knowledgable people at my ISP who was able to sort out
my router from his end.

then the problem was at the isp's end and the router's brains were not
scrambled.

Not so.

very much so. if the isp could fix it from their end, then it was not
your router.

if the router crashed, there's nothing they can do. you have to reset
it.

I was extremely glad to later get my current better router and later
still to abandon wifi for ethernet.

the router you have is not particularly good. rather ****ty, in fact.

replace it, if for no other reason, for better security as well as
faster wifi.

Whatever it is, it will also have to support telephone software.

phones don't need software.

some routers include an ata, but a better option is to get a separate
voip account and not rely on the modem and isp for that.

or, you could get another router just for wifi and disable wifi in the
original one. that way, you get the phone functionality and whatever
wifi you want. if you have a large house, a mesh system would work
well. just don't get eero anymore.

and as i told you before in another post, ios devices support wired
ethernet.

But I don't have the setup. Nor am I likely to have it.

your loss.

Nope. I've got a very adequate desk top.

i wasn't referring to that.

I was. As I've already told whiskydave, I'm now abandoning this
discussion.

no surprise there. it's what you do when shown to be wrong.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:13:44 -0500, nospam
wrote:

Your understanding of the meaning of words seems to be different from
mine. Different from most people's in fact.

i understand it quite well, which is that your story keeps changing.

There were three blind men who were led upt o an elelphant. One
thought it was like a wall, another like a tree ... etc.

You seem like the one blind man who upon being lead up to an elephant
and examining it as he wandered around expressed surprise at the way
the elephant kept changing shape.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Your understanding of the meaning of words seems to be different from
mine. Different from most people's in fact.

i understand it quite well, which is that your story keeps changing.

There were three blind men who were led upt o an elelphant. One
thought it was like a wall, another like a tree ... etc.

You seem like the one blind man who upon being lead up to an elephant
and examining it as he wandered around expressed surprise at the way
the elephant kept changing shape.

nope. you keep changing details.

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:48:59 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 09:11:54 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Fri, 15 Feb 2019 05:32:36 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:


Yes and from that we found that it is 7 years old, which is a bit old now, you did recently replace your PC didn't you IIRC that was 8 years old so why did you replace it because your network was slow ?

I replaced my PC because it was getting to the point where it was on
the verge of being able to run the latest software, such as the
current Adobe update. Before you sk, I haven't replaced the iPad
because non of the tasks I use it for are demanding and it continues
to do everything I want.

Then there's no problem is there, of course you do know that the system software also becomes 'out of date' as does browser software and ANY other software after a period of time and that is true of computers, tablets and even phones.
As all these devices are now basicaly just computers with some clever front ends then what's under ther hood of all of them PC, Mac, linux, will also become out of date and need replacing at some point.




Cannot you recognize that I was trying to make sure that I was trying
to ensure that I did not omit telling you something you might need to
know? I would rather tell you too much rather than too little.

Yes I can understand that I work with students, they too can find reasons why their circuit doesn't work, but usualy they are wrong, they are looking at it wrongly in most cases, they are looking for excuses, rather than a solution.


I was hoping to avoid a later song and
dance from you or nospam if you later found out and it made a
difference. But I seem to be getting the song and dance anyway.

So admit you are wrong or you got the wrong impression.

What am I supposed to be wrong about?

Most things you thought might be the problem such as the extra cirutry they squeezed into the ipad to get cellular.

I didn't think that was at all contributing to any problem. I told you
merely because it differentiated one model iPad from another.

The fact that it was wifi.
A 7 year old device.


Or why you expect a 7 year old iPad3 to be the same speed as a new PC.

I don't.

So how were you comparing things ?

I don't know why you keep concentrating on the iPad when (a) for most
applications the human interface on a tablet is significantly
different from that on a desk top and (b) not withstanding nospam,
congested wifi vs ethernet must always end up with ethernet being the
winner.


I've never complined that the old PC laptop from 2003 I have running W98, who's battery takes 4 hours to charge and then last 10 mins is not as good as my iMac or a macbook pro.

Neither did I make the equivalent complaint. What I did say was that I
very much prefer to do things on my desktop rather than the iPad. I
gave several reasons, one of which was related to the speed of the
wifi link.

Which has NOTHING to do with products used.

Quite. Why then do you keep harping on the product used?

If you put your desktop on wireless would you change you POV ?

My desk top was on wifi and I still preferred it.

I prefer my desktop for most things,

That's what I said. Why are you arguing with me?

... I prefer my ipad for others and my iphone for others things too. But I still prefer wearing my socks to weraing a phone, pad or computer products do have diffent key usages, this is why more and more people have more than one device and most are NOT choosing desktops.



First nospam and now you have latched on to this as being
my primary complaint. Well it isn't and it never was.

So what was your primary complaint ?
I though it was slow internet on your ipad, or slow google searches.

I think my primary complaint now is slow usenet readers.



AS I said if yuo want to compare wifi speeds then I'll, put my iphone7 against your wired PC.

Just a click or two will prove the point.
Which is best my iphone or your PC.


https://www.speedtest.net/

This argument is getting silly. I'm giving up on it now.

It's not an argument it;s the way of getting to the facts of what the problem is, which you still don't seem to understand.

Go back to the beginning of this part of the thread.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

On Mon, 18 Feb 2019 02:54:51 -0800 (PST), Whisky-dave
wrote:

On Saturday, 16 February 2019 22:56:00 UTC, Eric Stevens wrote:
On Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:13:44 -0500, nospam
wrote:

Your understanding of the meaning of words seems to be different from
mine. Different from most people's in fact.

i understand it quite well, which is that your story keeps changing.

There were three blind men who were led upt o an elelphant. One
thought it was like a wall, another like a tree ... etc.

and the third thought it was an ipad ;-)

Until he inserted the USB cable.


You seem like the one blind man who upon being lead up to an elephant
and examining it as he wandered around expressed surprise at the way
the elephant kept changing shape.

No the elephant didn't change shape that is the whole point you don't understand it was the way the blind man was evaluting what he couldn't see that gave him the wrong result.


Duhh !!!!!!!!!
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Or why you expect a 7 year old iPad3 to be the same speed as a new PC.

I don't.

So how were you comparing things ?

I don't know why you keep concentrating on the iPad when (a) for most
applications the human interface on a tablet is significantly
different from that on a desk top

that's a good thing, and not relevant to the topic.

and (b) not withstanding nospam,
congested wifi vs ethernet must always end up with ethernet being the
winner.

absolutely false. where do you come up with this ****?

only if you have 10g-e (and you don't) will wired ethernet be faster.

gigabit ethernet is a *bottleneck* for wifi. it's too slow.

On Tue, 19 Feb 2019 17:24:49 -0500, nospam
wrote:

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Or why you expect a 7 year old iPad3 to be the same speed as a new PC.

I don't.

So how were you comparing things ?

I don't know why you keep concentrating on the iPad when (a) for most
applications the human interface on a tablet is significantly
different from that on a desk top

that's a good thing, and not relevant to the topic.

It is a very relevant and I mentioned it near the beginning of this
boondogle. But you saw I was talking about an Apple product and your
eyes went red ...

and (b) not withstanding nospam,
congested wifi vs ethernet must always end up with ethernet being the
winner.

absolutely false. where do you come up with this ****?

Collisions and general channel congestion leading to high packet loss
and retries etc. See
https://www.metageek.com/training/re...ongestion.html



only if you have 10g-e (and you don't) will wired ethernet be faster.

gigabit ethernet is a *bottleneck* for wifi. it's too slow.

Not in a noisy environment.
--

Regards,

Eric Stevens

In article , Eric Stevens
wrote:

Or why you expect a 7 year old iPad3 to be the same speed as a new PC.

I don't.

So how were you comparing things ?

I don't know why you keep concentrating on the iPad when (a) for most
applications the human interface on a tablet is significantly
different from that on a desk top

that's a good thing, and not relevant to the topic.

It is a very relevant and I mentioned it near the beginning of this
boondogle.

it's not relevant whatsoever.

tablets are optimized for touch & direct manipulation while desktops
are optimized for mouse/trackpad & indirect manipulation. they are two
different user interface paradigms, so naturally the devices will have
different user interfaces.

But you saw I was talking about an Apple product and your
eyes went red ...

nope.

and (b) not withstanding nospam,
congested wifi vs ethernet must always end up with ethernet being the
winner.

absolutely false. where do you come up with this ****?

Collisions and general channel congestion leading to high packet loss
and retries etc. See
https://www.metageek.com/training/re...ongestion.html

that's horribly outdated and therefore not relevant.

only if you have 10g-e (and you don't) will wired ethernet be faster.

gigabit ethernet is a *bottleneck* for wifi. it's too slow.

Not in a noisy environment.

even then, although it's rarely noisy so that is also not relevant.