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  #1  
Old December 30th 10, 09:16 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
[email protected]
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Posts: 428
Default No need to know anything..

Someone spammed saying.

It is a fully automatic high quality digital camera. Like other Sony
products, this camera is also designed with to deliver best quality
and performance. You can shoot great pictures like professional even
if you are a novice.



Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera
= great images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how to
use the camera? 90% of the time when someone looks at my images their
first comment is "Wow, that's a great camera". I actually use fairly
crappy ones and many of them are over 50 years old.

And people constantly ask me for advice on what new camera to get to
do a certain thing like product photography, ignoring the fact they have
no clue about lighting etc etc etc. Then they get insulted if you try to
explain to them that unless they take some classes or study the subject,
a new camera isn't going to fix their problem they have with their
present camera. I know I could take nice shots with the gear they are
using now as going from 5MP to 12MP one isn't going to fix glare off
glass, poor contrast from bad lighting, awful clutter in the background
and other problems they have.

Maybe advertising like the above has convinced people they just need
to buy a great camera and not knowing anything about photography isn't
an issue?

Stephey
  #2  
Old December 30th 10, 11:27 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Howard Lester[_3_]
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Posts: 24
Default No need to know anything..

wrote

Maybe advertising like the above has convinced people they just need to
buy a great camera and not knowing anything about photography isn't an
issue?


What do you mean "maybe"? :-) Advertising exists for the sole purpose of
selling something -- regardless of anything else, including morality.

People are suckers for glitz as well as for the latest and greatest -- and
the advertisers know that.

(And I won't go into my rant about how a computer geek can Photoshop his or
her way out of a disaster, noting your "not knowing anything about
photography.")

*sigh* I do love my Provia.

  #3  
Old December 31st 10, 12:24 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
K W Hart
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Posts: 142
Default No need to know anything..


wrote in message ...
Someone spammed saying.

It is a fully automatic high quality digital camera. Like other Sony
products, this camera is also designed with to deliver best quality
and performance. You can shoot great pictures like professional even
if you are a novice.



Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera =
great images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how to use
the camera? 90% of the time when someone looks at my images their first
comment is "Wow, that's a great camera". I actually use fairly crappy ones
and many of them are over 50 years old.

And people constantly ask me for advice on what new camera to get to do
a certain thing like product photography, ignoring the fact they have no
clue about lighting etc etc etc. Then they get insulted if you try to
explain to them that unless they take some classes or study the subject, a
new camera isn't going to fix their problem they have with their present
camera. I know I could take nice shots with the gear they are using now as
going from 5MP to 12MP one isn't going to fix glare off glass, poor
contrast from bad lighting, awful clutter in the background and other
problems they have.

Maybe advertising like the above has convinced people they just need to
buy a great camera and not knowing anything about photography isn't an
issue?

Stephey


My favorite analogy is after eating a delicious meal, you say to the cook,
"That was great! You must really have some good pots and pans!"

There is a poem, I think the title is something like 'The touch of a
master's hand'. The storyline of the poem is an auctioner is trying to sell
an old violin. He starts the bidding at $100 and goes down. When he gets
down to five dollars or so, someone steps forward, picks up the old violin
and starts to play it. After playing it beautifully, the auctioneer starts
the bidding again, at $1000 and goes up.
It's not how good the camera is, it's the skill of the person behind the
viewfinder.


  #4  
Old December 31st 10, 04:32 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Noons
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Posts: 3,245
Default No need to know anything..

wrote,on my timestamp of 31/12/2010 7:16 AM:


Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera = great
images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how to use the camera?
90% of the time when someone looks at my images their first comment is "Wow,
that's a great camera". I actually use fairly crappy ones and many of them are
over 50 years old.


I love it when they comment "Wowie, what a great photo, did you use a Canon
DSLR?" and I answer: "No, I use film on any camera".
Invariably, their face puckers up and they go "film? is it still available?".
I am soooo glad this type of photographer has moved on to digital and left film
to those who like photography!



And people constantly ask me for advice on what new camera to get to do a
certain thing like product photography, ignoring the fact they have no clue
about lighting etc etc etc. Then they get insulted if you try to explain to them
that unless they take some classes or study the subject, a new camera isn't
going to fix their problem they have with their present camera. I know I could
take nice shots with the gear they are using now as going from 5MP to 12MP one
isn't going to fix glare off glass, poor contrast from bad lighting, awful
clutter in the background and other problems they have.

Maybe advertising like the above has convinced people they just need to buy a
great camera and not knowing anything about photography isn't an issue?




It's the same reason commuters buy Mercs and Beamers instead of Toyotas and
Nissans. In their minds they all become racing "pros" while waiting for the
next red light to go green.
  #5  
Old December 31st 10, 08:08 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Lawrence T. Akutagawa
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Posts: 13
Default No need to know anything..



wrote in message ...

Someone spammed saying.

It is a fully automatic high quality digital camera. Like other Sony
products, this camera is also designed with to deliver best quality
and performance. You can shoot great pictures like professional even
if you are a novice.



Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera
= great images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how to
use the camera? 90% of the time when someone looks at my images their
first comment is "Wow, that's a great camera". I actually use fairly
crappy ones and many of them are over 50 years old.

/snip - follow the thread/

********
Hey don't knock digital. If not for digital, the great mob of common folks
would not have the kind of images they have. And a good 80-90% percent of
the time, those images are not bad at all. Have you at any - any - kind of
large public gathering looked around and seen the number of camera toting
folks? There is a small fortune in photo hardware around you, be it a
parade, a stage presentation, even a place like Glacier Point or the Grand
Canyon.

And don't forget the classic retort when your neighbor/friend/relative
foists upon you that well exposed, well focused (but not well composed)
picture saying something to the effect "Isn't this a great picture?" - "Yes,
this is a very well exposed and well focused picture. It's as good as well
exposed and well focused as the pictures my four year old grandson takes
with his digital camera."

Dunno about you, but I can well remember when the best chance any four year
old had of taking a decent well focused and well exposed image was with a
Kodak Brownie Hawkeye using Verichrome Pan. And even at that, those images
were nowhere as well focused and well exposed as those from even a 1.3
megapixel digital. By the way - those older digitals make wonderful gifts
for the young ones. And they are inexpensive as can be on EBay and
Shopgoodwill.com.

Now that having been said, for "serious" stuff nothing - nothing - beats
the look and feel of a good, well processed silver gelatin print. I
understand that if I am willing to pay lots, I can get a digital print with
a look and feel similar to a traditional silver gelatin print. But why pay
more for something "similar" when I can get what I want for much, much less?

  #6  
Old January 2nd 11, 08:15 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
[email protected]
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Posts: 428
Default No need to know anything..

On 12/31/2010 2:08 PM, Lawrence T. Akutagawa wrote:


wrote in message ...

Someone spammed saying.

It is a fully automatic high quality digital camera. Like other Sony
products, this camera is also designed with to deliver best quality
and performance. You can shoot great pictures like professional even
if you are a novice.



Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera
= great images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how to
use the camera? 90% of the time when someone looks at my images their
first comment is "Wow, that's a great camera". I actually use fairly
crappy ones and many of them are over 50 years old.

/snip - follow the thread/

********
Hey don't knock digital.


/snip

I wasn't specifically talking/knocking digital. This has been happening
for decades, long before digital came out. I guess this just stuck a
cord with me after trying to explain to an folk artist friend of mine
that buying a new camera wasn't going to magically get her
magazine/catalog quality product shots.


Stephe
  #7  
Old January 10th 11, 12:35 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default No need to know anything..

On 2010.12.30 15:16 , wrote:

Does anyone else ever get sick of how the public assumes good camera
= great images and it has nothing to do with the person knowing how
to use the camera? 90% of the time when someone looks at my images
their first comment is "Wow, that's a great camera". I actually use
fairly crappy ones and many of them are over 50 years old.


It's just marketing spew of the kind that happens with just about any
other product. Nothing to get hung up about.

Maybe advertising like the above has convinced people they just need
to buy a great camera and not knowing anything about photography
isn't an issue?


That is the role of successful advertising. Sell something.

The perception generated when a commercial shows a person (famous or
otherwise) pointing at a scene with a camera and then the resulting
(perfect of course) image is just powerful. It must be the camera since
that's what (s)he was holding. We learn mostly through our eyes.
Advertising people are very much aware of that...

The latest camera commercials, with video capable DSLR's, even close
with the message "This commercial was shot entirely on the same camera."
Powerful stuff if you're selling something.

But in the end, why should it offend you so much? Really, you have your
photographic goals so go ahead and focus on that.

One area though where I notice nobody assigning equipment to the result
is cooking: When you make something delicious nobody ever mentions the
stove, the cookware or such, it's simply "Wow, that was great! Can I
have the recipe?"

--
gmail originated posts filtered due to spam.
  #8  
Old January 10th 11, 06:28 PM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
[email protected]
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Posts: 428
Default No need to know anything..

On 1/9/2011 6:35 PM, Alan Browne wrote:


But in the end, why should it offend you so much? Really, you have your
photographic goals so go ahead and focus on that.

One area though where I notice nobody assigning equipment to the result
is cooking: When you make something delicious nobody ever mentions the
stove, the cookware or such, it's simply "Wow, that was great! Can I
have the recipe?"



Offended isn't my reaction, it's more just irritating. If they asked
"how did you take that", that would be a question I could answer that
would help them improve their photographic skills. Just like your recipe
example does.

When people present a photographic problem to me involving special
lighting etc, they FOCUS on what sort of camera to buy instead. They
refuse to believe that possibly they already have the right gear, they
just need to learn a technique to solve their problem. -That- is
irritating trying to explain that some new fancy camera is going to
result in nothing more that wasted money.

Stephe


  #9  
Old January 11th 11, 01:29 AM posted to rec.photo.equipment.medium-format,rec.photo.equipment.large-format
Alan Browne
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Posts: 12,640
Default No need to know anything..

On 2011.01.10 12:28 , wrote:
On 1/9/2011 6:35 PM, Alan Browne wrote:


But in the end, why should it offend you so much? Really, you have your
photographic goals so go ahead and focus on that.

One area though where I notice nobody assigning equipment to the result
is cooking: When you make something delicious nobody ever mentions the
stove, the cookware or such, it's simply "Wow, that was great! Can I
have the recipe?"



Offended isn't my reaction, it's more just irritating. If they asked


Irritated, offended, whatever. Wasted emotion?

"how did you take that", that would be a question I could answer that
would help them improve their photographic skills. Just like your recipe
example does.


True enough. But many people tend to think that it's the camera doing
the magic and that the photographer is a button pusher.

I've learned a lot from pros by watching, listening and asking
questions. But I ask about lighting and composition (my favourite and
weakest areas, respectively) and not about equipment (too much). The
lessons that always strike home are when the pro does something special
with very little fuss or equipment. Experience, talent.

When people present a photographic problem to me involving special
lighting etc, they FOCUS on what sort of camera to buy instead. They
refuse to believe that possibly they already have the right gear, they
just need to learn a technique to solve their problem. -That- is
irritating trying to explain that some new fancy camera is going to
result in nothing more that wasted money.


I'll repeat from my prior post, in a nutshell, the commercials as
presented raise the expectation that the camera will make the image for
them. That they are perplexed (or confused, angry, dumbfounded, etc.)
that they don't get the photo they expect can be for a large part laid
on that. Expectations are a powerful thing.

I sometimes help people with the basics, and most learn for a while, and
most of those forget those basics unless they practice a lot. Most
don't. Most depend on the "P" mode a lot of the time. A few go a bit
further. A few go a lot further.

My SO and one of my friends are cases in point. Both, over the years
keep coming back "so if I want the background soft, I set the aperture
to a big value or a small one?" (etc). They know it can be done. They
know it involves those f things - just not which way. Neither has
forgotten the best lesson, though: magic hour.

--
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