Windows freeware to lock in a 3: or 4:3 aspect ratio for cropping

Paul wrote:
Savageduck wrote:
nospam wrote:
In article , Savageduck
wrote:

In Windows however, not so. BMP is the native image format in that OS. i.e.
used by the graphic kernel.
Not being a Windows user, I don¹t understand this idea of holding on to the
BMP format when there are much better ways to go.
don't lump all windows users based on the actions of a few.


I know. As far as I know we only have a single BMP obsessed Windows user in
this NG.


So you've never run into a situation before, where a
tool doesn't support the entire spectrum of file formats ?

Fortunately for me, no.

For Mac users we have a very neat piece of software, “Graphic Converter�
which pretty much does that job. It can dig up some pretty obscure file
formats.
https://www.lemkesoft.de/en/products/graphicconverter/

Otherwise Adobe CC, and some third party plug-ins cover my photo editing
needs.

Well, OK then.

Let's take (WinXP) Windows Movie Maker as a poster boy for this.

Let’s not. I last used Win XP 11-12 years ago, and I haven’t used any
variety of Windows for 10+ years. I have not had the need to.

It only supported Microsoft formats and nothing else.
Requiring the user to use a second tool to make
an actual usable output.

That sounds like a royal PIA to me.

To me "every capability is a possibility" when
cobbling together a solution out of a pile of
software I've got.

....and what software do you have?

I don't reject something just
because its old. If a wonderful tool only had BMP
input, I'd still be using it.

What wonderful tool are you thinking of, and why if all it could cope with
was BMP, why would it be considered wonderful?

Some tools are
demonstrators (written by academics), and they
don't necessarily support every format you might like.

If they don’t necessarily support every format I might like, why should I
consider using them?

These days I use NEF, RAF, TIFF, and even JPEG.

There are people out there, writing perfectly fine software,
who don't even know how to craft useful command line
parameters (for their so-called command line programs).
It takes all kinds to make a world.

Yup! I am just another one who falls under the category of “all kinds�.

Since the functions
the software performs are actually useful and unique,
we just put up with this.

Paul




--
Regards,
Savageduck

ultred ragnusen Wrote in message:
wrote:

Looking yourself into a single crop ratio is volunteering into silly
dogma!

The goal is a simple to use tool on Windows that has a GUI that is easier
to use than is the slow and cumbersome slide-under-the-bridge aspect ratio
GUI of Microsoft Photos.

All that is needed is a simple crop, that has a button to restrict it to a
given aspect ratio.

The Gimp, never an easy to use tool, for example, has an aspect ratio tool.
http://www.shallowsky.com/blog/2009/Feb/05/
https://w0.dk/~chlor/www/schou.dk/li...-aspect-ratio/
http://helperthisis146.weebly.com/bl...nload-programs

But the goal is a simpler to use Windows free aspect ratio crop, at least
simpler (and faster) than Microsoft Photos or The Gimp.

ImageMagic should do that on the fly from the command line...

https://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php
--
Bats can't tell us apart!



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"Savageduck" wrote

| These days I use NEF, RAF, TIFF, and even JPEG.
|

We discussed this before. TIF is usually just a
compressed bitmap. On Windows that's BMP. I think
you're getting hung up on the "BMP" and "bitmap"
terminology. A raster image is a bitmap. Those two
terms are synonymous.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics

When you work on photos those are raster images.
Raster formats are bitmap storage formats. TIF, JPG,
PNG are not something different. They're just different
storage packages for bitmaps. TIF can be many
things, but typically it's just a zipped 24-bit bitmap. So
I use TIF and BMP to store images I intend to work on.
It would be absurd to store as JPG. It'sd profoundly
ill-suited to the job. Famiarity doesn't make it a
good format.
BMP is easier for me than TIF if I have the space.
It's the basic image. And the image shows as an icon
in folders, which is handy. (I don't like having image
files show as thumbnails.)
You use TIF. Basically the same thing.It's all bitmaps.
Why is that so hard to grok? What do you think your
filters in Photoshop are doing when you do something
like increase saturation? They're just applying a math
formula to the pixel values in the bitmap. That operation
is exactly the same whether it's BMP, TIF, or JPG. The
only difference is where you got the bitmap from and
where you're saving it to.

You can keep your beer
in a frig or a cooler. It's still beer. The frig is more
dependable. The cooler is more mobile. Those are
just the packaging that keeps it cool. Beer is beer.
Pixels are pixels.
In this case, if you keep your beer in a BMP or TIF
you're OK. If the image is still in RAW that's fine.
But if you store it as JPG you're skunking your
beer. Before long it won't be worth drinking.

It gets confusing when we try to translate
to Apple because Macs are targetted at very
non-tech oriented people. A webpage I came across
in trying to find what Apple calls a bitmap was
not at all informative because Apple assumes you
don't want to understand the details. (And Lord Jobs
felt strongly that you shouldn't understand the
details. Of course, he didn't himself, so that makes
sense.)
I didn't see anything listed there as being an
Apple version of a basic bitmap file. So maybe
Apple doesn't have such a thing. But I can't tell from
the descriptions.

https://documentation.apple.com/en/f...section_4.html

In article , Mayayana
wrote:


| These days I use NEF, RAF, TIFF, and even JPEG.

We discussed this before. TIF is usually just a
compressed bitmap.

tif can be anything, including raw sensor data.

it *can* be compressed, but normally is not.

On Windows that's BMP.

bmp is not normally compressed.

I think
you're getting hung up on the "BMP" and "bitmap"
terminology. A raster image is a bitmap. Those two
terms are synonymous.

more accurately, you are assuming bmp is the same as a bitmap (or more
accurately, a pixel map) in memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raster_graphics

When you work on photos those are raster images.
Raster formats are bitmap storage formats. TIF, JPG,
PNG are not something different. They're just different
storage packages for bitmaps.

storage package being a file on disk.

*not* in memory.

TIF can be many
things, but typically it's just a zipped 24-bit bitmap.

no it isn't.

So
I use TIF and BMP to store images I intend to work on.
It would be absurd to store as JPG. It'sd profoundly
ill-suited to the job. Famiarity doesn't make it a
good format.

billions of jpeg photos disagree with you.

BMP is easier for me than TIF if I have the space.
It's the basic image. And the image shows as an icon
in folders, which is handy. (I don't like having image
files show as thumbnails.)

you're using primitive software.

You use TIF. Basically the same thing.It's all bitmaps.
Why is that so hard to grok? What do you think your
filters in Photoshop are doing when you do something
like increase saturation? They're just applying a math
formula to the pixel values in the bitmap. That operation
is exactly the same whether it's BMP, TIF, or JPG. The
only difference is where you got the bitmap from and
where you're saving it to.

photoshop can open bmp, tiff, jpeg and many other formats, but
internally, it uses a *different* structure.

You can keep your beer
in a frig or a cooler. It's still beer. The frig is more
dependable. The cooler is more mobile. Those are
just the packaging that keeps it cool. Beer is beer.
Pixels are pixels.
In this case, if you keep your beer in a BMP or TIF
you're OK. If the image is still in RAW that's fine.
But if you store it as JPG you're skunking your
beer. Before long it won't be worth drinking.

not a good analogy.

It gets confusing when we try to translate
to Apple

yet another thing you fail to understand, and because you have a stick
up your ass about all things apple, you won't ever learn.

no translating is necessary because apple supports industry standard
formats.

because Macs are targetted at very
non-tech oriented people.

nonsense.

https://sugoru.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/cern2-1.png

A webpage I came across
in trying to find what Apple calls a bitmap was
not at all informative because Apple assumes you
don't want to understand the details.

you didn't look very hard.

(And Lord Jobs
felt strongly that you shouldn't understand the
details. Of course, he didn't himself, so that makes
sense.)

he understood a *lot* more than you ever will.

I didn't see anything listed there as being an
Apple version of a basic bitmap file. So maybe
Apple doesn't have such a thing.

more accurately, you don't understand what to even look for, which is
why you didn't find it, along with your misguided hatred for apple.

But I can't tell from
the descriptions.

it would help if you read the correct descriptions.

https://documentation.apple.com/en/f...section_4.html

that's the final cut pro user manual, not what mac os uses, but
regardless, you'll see among the file formats listed:

€ BMP: Standard bit-mapped graphics format used on Windows
computers.

wrote:

But the goal is a simpler to use Windows free aspect ratio crop, at least
simpler (and faster) than Microsoft Photos or The Gimp.

ImageMagic should do that on the fly from the command line...

https://www.imagemagick.org/script/index.php

Thank you for that on-topic suggestion of Imagemagick's "transform"
command, even as I think the helpful suggestion from the alt.comp.freeware
poster of how to force the aspect ratio in an Irfanview crop is likely to
be the easiest we'll find for Windows aspect-ratio cropping.

I think of Imagemagick as a command-line tool, but your suggestion deserves
adequate exploration, where the command of choice seems to be the 'crop'.
https://www.imagemagick.org/Usage/crop/#crop

Here is an example from that Imagemagick manpage:
convert rose: -crop 40x30+90+60 crop_miss.gif

This seems useful particularly as a batch command, when you know the
position of the crop you wish to make on a bunch of files (which isn't the
case in my original question).

However, it's a useful alternative that should be noted, as ImageMagick is
known to be powerful and fast freeware.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 17:43:20 +0000, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

The information in the graphics RAM while a picture is on screen -
whatever the OS - is going to be raw image data, regardless of how it
was saved to or loaded from disc. (What _is_ the "native" format for
Macs then?)

If you're talking about how the image is stored in the graphics RAM, then
BMP, JPEG, TIF, etc. is no longer relevant, because it's stored as
uncompressed raw image. 3D texture images however, is stored in GPU's native
image format, which can be uncompressed or compressed.

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 13:15:15 -0500, nospam wrote:

(What _is_ the "native" format for
Macs then?)

pdf

Yeah, right...

wrote:

Q: What Windows freeware locks in a 3:2 or 4:3 aspect ratio for cropping?
A: Irfanview (and Microsoft Photos and The Gimp - but they're cumbersome).

Fastone also has a crop to aspect ratio feature, which works even better
than Irvanview's does in that the cropping part is simpler.

I deleted Fastone after using it for a couple of hours though, as the
decisions made by the developer put us back in the single-screen days of
the 1980s, before "windows" existed on desktops.

Here is what I wrote up on the Windows 10 newsgroup about how to use the
crop feature of Fastone, which was suggested by Monty, I think.

----------------------------------------------
When opening a JPG, Fastone insists on an obnoxious full screen mode.
I couldn't find a way to turn that horrid always-full-screen setting off.

Anyway, since there are no static menus, I push the mouse full screeen
left.

This brings up a menu which has a section called "Rotation, resize, &
text".

In that "Rotation, resize, & text" menu is a selection for "Crop board".
Clicking "Crop board" brings up the image in the desired size (finally!).

In that "Crop board", you can select something cryptically called the
"paper ratio" with a selection box for another cryptic setting of "flip
ratio", where the options for "5:3 ratio" and "3:2 ratio" are available.

Once you get to this point, Fastone is actually pretty decently efficient
in that the adjustment of that crop area is intuitive (far better than is
Irfanview) for both the relocation and resizing of that crop area.

So, Fastone works, and fits the requirement, and, once you get past the
huge annoyance of the (seemingly mandatory) full-screen view, it actually
is more efficient than Irfanview, if only at a half dozen steps later.

In article , JJ
wrote:

If you're talking about how the image is stored in the graphics RAM, then
BMP, JPEG, TIF, etc. is no longer relevant, because it's stored as
uncompressed raw image.

exactly

In article , JJ
wrote:


(What _is_ the "native" format for Macs then?)

pdf

Yeah, right...

it is.

nextstep/openstep used display postscript to draw to the screen (and
printer), and when it morphed into os x, dps was replaced with pdf (dps
had licensing issues).