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Why the 800E is more important than ever



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 20th 12, 04:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
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Posts: 1,116
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

"RichA" wrote in message
...
Because the FF stuff inherently lacks sharpness compared to some APS
stuff. It may, MAY have high resolving power, but that isn't the
same. Esthetically, sharpness "looks" better. So, if the 800E can
provide a sharper looking image, then it makes even more sense to have
it.


So are you really saying that the lenses aren't up to 36 MP?

David

  #2  
Old March 20th 12, 06:18 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
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Posts: 1,116
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:26 am, "David J Taylor" david-
wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message

...

Because the FF stuff inherently lacks sharpness compared to some APS
stuff. It may, MAY have high resolving power, but that isn't the
same. Esthetically, sharpness "looks" better. So, if the 800E can
provide a sharper looking image, then it makes even more sense to
have
it.


So are you really saying that the lenses aren't up to 36 MP?

David


No, but what I started noticing some time ago (between my Pentax K10D
and K20D 10-16mp jump) was that initially at least the images out of
the K20D did not look as sharp. Same thing with some Olympus gear I
owned. Resolution is there, but sharpness needs a bit of work.


If you're viewing at 100% zoom (pixel peeping) that's about what is
expected. Supposing you resample the 10 MP and 16 MP images to your
native display resolution. Can you see any difference then? Supposing
you print both at the same physical size - any difference then?

David

  #3  
Old March 20th 12, 08:30 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
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Posts: 241
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

On 21/03/2012 6:18 a.m., David J Taylor wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message
...
On Mar 20, 11:26 am, "David J Taylor" david-
wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message

...


Because the FF stuff inherently lacks sharpness compared to some APS
stuff. It may, MAY have high resolving power, but that isn't the
same. Esthetically, sharpness "looks" better. So, if the 800E can
provide a sharper looking image, then it makes even more sense to
have
it.

So are you really saying that the lenses aren't up to 36 MP?

David


No, but what I started noticing some time ago (between my Pentax K10D
and K20D 10-16mp jump) was that initially at least the images out of
the K20D did not look as sharp. Same thing with some Olympus gear I
owned. Resolution is there, but sharpness needs a bit of work.


If you're viewing at 100% zoom (pixel peeping) that's about what is
expected. Supposing you resample the 10 MP and 16 MP images to your
native display resolution. Can you see any difference then? Supposing
you print both at the same physical size - any difference then?


You're wasting your time explaining - it's been explained to him dozens
of times before. Even if could understand that, he drinks absinthe at
breakfast time, and has strange mushrooms for lunch.

Perhaps if he looks at the watch in the raw samples from DP Review
(which aren't actually raw samples, they're jpegs - converted from raw
with ACR), then looks at the bottom of the watch, there are some
characters at the bottom.
Compare D800, 5d, and 645d, and see which one can be read most clearly.
  #4  
Old March 21st 12, 02:47 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Rich[_6_]
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Posts: 1,081
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

Me wrote in :

On 21/03/2012 6:18 a.m., David J Taylor wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message

...
On Mar 20, 11:26 am, "David J Taylor" david-
wrote:
"RichA" wrote in message


om...


Because the FF stuff inherently lacks sharpness compared to some
APS stuff. It may, MAY have high resolving power, but that isn't
the same. Esthetically, sharpness "looks" better. So, if the 800E
can provide a sharper looking image, then it makes even more
sense to
have
it.

So are you really saying that the lenses aren't up to 36 MP?

David

No, but what I started noticing some time ago (between my Pentax
K10D and K20D 10-16mp jump) was that initially at least the images
out of the K20D did not look as sharp. Same thing with some Olympus
gear I owned. Resolution is there, but sharpness needs a bit of
work.


If you're viewing at 100% zoom (pixel peeping) that's about what is
expected. Supposing you resample the 10 MP and 16 MP images to your
native display resolution. Can you see any difference then? Supposing
you print both at the same physical size - any difference then?


You're wasting your time explaining - it's been explained to him
dozens of times before. Even if could understand that, he drinks
absinthe at breakfast time, and has strange mushrooms for lunch.

Perhaps if he looks at the watch in the raw samples from DP Review
(which aren't actually raw samples, they're jpegs - converted from raw
with ACR), then looks at the bottom of the watch, there are some
characters at the bottom.
Compare D800, 5d, and 645d, and see which one can be read most
clearly.


You must be mentioning absinthe as a highly alcoholic drink as it's
mythical hallucinagenic properties were disproved in 1999.
  #5  
Old March 21st 12, 03:38 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 241
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

On 21/03/2012 2:47 p.m., Rich wrote:
wrote in :

On 21/03/2012 6:18 a.m., David J Taylor wrote:
wrote in message

...
On Mar 20, 11:26 am, "David J Taylor"david-
wrote:
wrote in message


om...


Because the FF stuff inherently lacks sharpness compared to some
APS stuff. It may, MAY have high resolving power, but that isn't
the same. Esthetically, sharpness "looks" better. So, if the 800E
can provide a sharper looking image, then it makes even more
sense to
have
it.

So are you really saying that the lenses aren't up to 36 MP?

David

No, but what I started noticing some time ago (between my Pentax
K10D and K20D 10-16mp jump) was that initially at least the images
out of the K20D did not look as sharp. Same thing with some Olympus
gear I owned. Resolution is there, but sharpness needs a bit of
work.

If you're viewing at 100% zoom (pixel peeping) that's about what is
expected. Supposing you resample the 10 MP and 16 MP images to your
native display resolution. Can you see any difference then? Supposing
you print both at the same physical size - any difference then?


You're wasting your time explaining - it's been explained to him
dozens of times before. Even if could understand that, he drinks
absinthe at breakfast time, and has strange mushrooms for lunch.

Perhaps if he looks at the watch in the raw samples from DP Review
(which aren't actually raw samples, they're jpegs - converted from raw
with ACR), then looks at the bottom of the watch, there are some
characters at the bottom.
Compare D800, 5d, and 645d, and see which one can be read most
clearly.


You must be mentioning absinthe as a highly alcoholic drink as it's
mythical hallucinagenic properties were disproved in 1999.

So, you're just ****ed - not necessarily hallucinating?
I find that hard to believe.
  #6  
Old March 21st 12, 08:26 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,116
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

"RichA" wrote in message
...
[]
If you're viewing at 100% zoom (pixel peeping) that's about what is
expected. Supposing you resample the 10 MP and 16 MP images to your
native display resolution. Can you see any difference then? Supposing
you print both at the same physical size - any difference then?

David


I could see a difference on screen at less the 100%, but as for seeing
it in a print, it would depend on the print size. Certainly not 8x10
or 11x14.


So you haven't made prints? Nor compared at native display resolution?
Just seen the comparison at pixel-peeping level?

David

  #7  
Old March 21st 12, 03:26 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,116
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

"RichA" wrote in message
...
[]
No, everytime I use a computer, it's at native resolution, but that
doesn't preclude me from viewing the image at its native resolution,
which is about 4 screens wide by 3 screens high, or thereabouts.


So having resampled a 10 MP and 16 MP image to your PCs native screen
resolution (what's that - 2 MP?), can you see any difference in
resolution?

  #8  
Old March 21st 12, 09:46 PM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Eric Stevens
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Posts: 13,611
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 14:26:00 -0000, "David J Taylor"
wrote:

"RichA" wrote in message
...
[]
No, everytime I use a computer, it's at native resolution, but that
doesn't preclude me from viewing the image at its native resolution,
which is about 4 screens wide by 3 screens high, or thereabouts.


So having resampled a 10 MP and 16 MP image to your PCs native screen
resolution (what's that - 2 MP?), can you see any difference in
resolution?


Surely you only need to resample if you want to retain the original
image size? Otherwise it's pixel to pixel and damn the image size.

Regards,

Eric Stevens
  #9  
Old March 22nd 12, 05:59 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
David J Taylor[_16_]
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Posts: 1,116
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever

Surely you only need to resample if you want to retain the original
image size? Otherwise it's pixel to pixel and damn the image size.

Regards,

Eric Stevens


If you want to pixel peep, then don't resample. If you want to compare
the 10 MP and 16 MP images Rich was talking about when displayed as an
image - on a monitor or when printed out - then for use on the monitor for
fair comparison (with the whole image occupying the screen), you need to
resample to the monitor's native resolution.

I was trying to get an answer from Rich as to how the two cameras compared
on real-world images - those displayed on a computer monitor, HD TV, or or
a print viewed at normal viewing distance, without a magnifying loupe.

Cheers,
David

  #10  
Old March 22nd 12, 06:39 AM posted to rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
Trevor[_2_]
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Posts: 874
Default Why the 800E is more important than ever


"David J Taylor" wrote in message
...
If you want to pixel peep, then don't resample. If you want to compare
the 10 MP and 16 MP images Rich was talking about when displayed as an
image - on a monitor or when printed out - then for use on the monitor for
fair comparison (with the whole image occupying the screen), you need to
resample to the monitor's native resolution.


Resampling to a monitors native resolution and "comparing" at full screen
size is NO comparison at all. Might as well compare 6"x4" prints. I'm amazed
at the people who are so stupid as to deride any real comparison as "pixel
peeping", the same idiots who call checking a camera image or histogram
"chimping" I suppose. I guess it makes them feel superior when obviously
they don't have a clue.

Trevor.


 




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