rechargeable AA NiMH instead of disposable AA lithium in Kodak Z712?

wrote:
Hi.

Has anyone tried using rechargable AA NiMH batteries in a Kodak Z712
camera, please?
It takes AA lithium batteries, but those are disposable.
It also takes a KLIC-8000 battery, but those seem _much_ more
expensive.

I expect the NiMH to not last as long, but at least it is rechargable
and cheaper.

Stick with the KLIC-8000 or generic replacement. You can buy the CTA
DB-8000 for $16 from Overstock.com.

The problem with the NiMH AA cells are that the voltage is a lot less
than that of the AA Lithium cells. They will work for a short time in
the Z712, but you'll go through multiple sets of NiMH cells for the same
number of photos of the KLIC-8000, CR-V3, or Lithium AA cells. The NiMH
batteries won't even really be discharged, but the voltage will be
slightly lower than the fully-charged voltage, and this will result in
the camera shutting down. There are numerous reports of attempts to use
NiMH AA cells in the Z712, and they don't work well.

Kodak could have made the cut-off voltage programmable so that NiMH
batteries would work properly, but they didn't.

See "http://batterydata.com/" for more details.

Ted Edwards wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Apples and oranges. We are NOT discussing the Canon S3.
The OP said he has some NiMH cells. Presumably he also has a charger.
If he hasn't lost interest in this thread, perhaps he'll report back in
which case neither your opinion or mine is relevant. One experiment is
worth a thousand posts.

Ted

Very true, if he will just test, and post.

Ron Hunter wrote:
Ted Edwards wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Apples and oranges. We are NOT discussing the Canon S3.
The OP said he has some NiMH cells. Presumably he also has a charger.
If he hasn't lost interest in this thread, perhaps he'll report back
in which case neither your opinion or mine is relevant. One
experiment is worth a thousand posts.

Ted

Very true, if he will just test, and post.

FWIW, there are reports already regarding Z712 owners trying to use NiMH
AA cells. They work, but not well or for long.

Kodak probably should never have made the use if AA Lithium batteries an
option in the Z712 IS because despite what they recommend, they should
have known that some users would try to use NiMH AA cells instead. If
they enable the use of AA cells, then they should have made the battery
type programmable so that NiMH batteries would work well.

Ironically, Kodak is really giving users the best of both worlds--in a
pinch you can buy a pack of Energizer Lithium AA cells, while at other
times you gain the tremendous advantages of Li-Ion rechargeables versus
NiMH AA cells, with the use of a KLIC-8000 or equivalent Li-Ion pack.

FWIW, there are reports already regarding Z712 owners trying to use NiMH
AA cells. They work, but not well or for long.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo....php?id=572060

Kodak probably should never have made the use if AA Lithium batteries an
option in the Z712 IS because despite what they recommend, they should
have known that some users would try to use NiMH AA cells instead. If
they enable the use of AA cells, then they should have made the battery
type programmable so that NiMH batteries would work well.

Kodak has made other cameras with a switch to choose your power source

Ironically, Kodak is really giving users the best of both worlds--in a
pinch you can buy a pack of Energizer Lithium AA cells, while at other
times you gain the tremendous advantages of Li-Ion rechargeables versus
NiMH AA cells, with the use of a KLIC-8000 or equivalent Li-Ion pack.

"tremendous advantage" You are showing your bias now. Not good
for someone that writes battery data pages and posts the link here
for all of us to read. With the advent of low self discharge NIMH
batteries there is no such thing as a tremendous advantages of
Li-Ion rechargeables versus NiMH AA cells.

SMS 斯蒂文• � wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Ted Edwards wrote:
Ron Hunter wrote:
Apples and oranges. We are NOT discussing the Canon S3.
The OP said he has some NiMH cells. Presumably he also has a
charger. If he hasn't lost interest in this thread, perhaps he'll
report back in which case neither your opinion or mine is relevant.
One experiment is worth a thousand posts.

Ted

Very true, if he will just test, and post.

FWIW, there are reports already regarding Z712 owners trying to use NiMH
AA cells. They work, but not well or for long.

Kodak probably should never have made the use if AA Lithium batteries an
option in the Z712 IS because despite what they recommend, they should
have known that some users would try to use NiMH AA cells instead. If
they enable the use of AA cells, then they should have made the battery
type programmable so that NiMH batteries would work well.

Ironically, Kodak is really giving users the best of both worlds--in a
pinch you can buy a pack of Energizer Lithium AA cells, while at other
times you gain the tremendous advantages of Li-Ion rechargeables versus
NiMH AA cells, with the use of a KLIC-8000 or equivalent Li-Ion pack.

I agree that IF the camera is engineered to actually work properly on
the lower voltage of NiMH cells, they should have included the ability
to make good use of them, but with the price of disposable lithium
batteries these days, it really isn't a great expense if you chose to
use them exclusively. I buy disposable AA lithium batteries for 12/$20,
so that comes to about $3 a set, and I get about 300 shots from a set.
A penny for each shot isn't likely to break me (any worse than I am
already broke.).

wrote:
FWIW, there are reports already regarding Z712 owners trying to use NiMH
AA cells. They work, but not well or for long.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo....php?id=572060

Kodak probably should never have made the use if AA Lithium batteries an
option in the Z712 IS because despite what they recommend, they should
have known that some users would try to use NiMH AA cells instead. If
they enable the use of AA cells, then they should have made the battery
type programmable so that NiMH batteries would work well.

Kodak has made other cameras with a switch to choose your power source

Ironically, Kodak is really giving users the best of both worlds--in a
pinch you can buy a pack of Energizer Lithium AA cells, while at other
times you gain the tremendous advantages of Li-Ion rechargeables versus
NiMH AA cells, with the use of a KLIC-8000 or equivalent Li-Ion pack.

"tremendous advantage" You are showing your bias now. Not good
for someone that writes battery data pages and posts the link here
for all of us to read. With the advent of low self discharge NIMH
batteries there is no such thing as a tremendous advantages of
Li-Ion rechargeables versus NiMH AA cells.

Well, lithium batteries still have great advantages in the area of
weight for power density, and low temperature performance. The long
shelf-life of the lithium disposables is also a good feature, but hardly
a consideration for most of us.

"tremendous advantage" You are showing your bias now. Not good
for someone that writes battery data pages and posts the link here
for all of us to read. With the advent of low self discharge NIMH
batteries there is no such thing as a tremendous advantages of
Li-Ion rechargeables versus NiMH AA cells.

Well, lithium batteries still have great advantages in the area of
weight for power density, and low temperature performance.

If these factors come into play. For most users these advantages
are ho hum.

The long
shelf-life of the lithium disposables is also a good feature, but hardly
a consideration for most of us.

For disposables true, but the above was about Li-ion rechargeable.
Li-ion rechargeable have a short life span period. They start to
degrade from day of manufacture even if they don't get used.
How can a battery with this restriction possibly have a "tremendous
advantage" over low self discharge NIMH batteries?

Ron Hunter wrote:

Well, lithium batteries still have great advantages in the area of
weight for power density, and low temperature performance. The long
shelf-life of the lithium disposables is also a good feature, but hardly
a consideration for most of us.

This is true. There's a tendency for NiMH users to focus only on
self-discharge, since this was one of the primary disadvantages of NiMH
batteries.

While personally I'm a big user of the eneloop batteries (I have three
of the Costco/Sanyo 12 packs), the low-discharge does come at the price
of lower cell capacity because of the technology used to reduce
self-discharge.

When I was XC skiing on Sunday, there was a couple with a Nikon point
and shoot camera that had the infamous battery door issue. While
technically this is just poor engineering on the part of camera makers,
it is inherent in the design of most AA powered cameras, which use
spring loaded contacts, and make the battery door part of the series
circuit.

wrote:

"tremendous advantage" You are showing your bias now. Not good
for someone that writes battery data pages and posts the link here
for all of us to read. With the advent of low self discharge NIMH
batteries there is no such thing as a tremendous advantages of
Li-Ion rechargeables versus NiMH AA cells.
Well, lithium batteries still have great advantages in the area of
weight for power density, and low temperature performance.

If these factors come into play. For most users these advantages
are ho hum.

The long
shelf-life of the lithium disposables is also a good feature, but hardly
a consideration for most of us.

For disposables true, but the above was about Li-ion rechargeable.
Li-ion rechargeable have a short life span period. They start to
degrade from day of manufacture even if they don't get used.
How can a battery with this restriction possibly have a "tremendous
advantage" over low self discharge NIMH batteries?

It depends on the intended usage. For some uses, disposable lithiums
make good sense, and for others Lithium-ion, and for yet others, NiMH.
In my laptop, I have Lithium-ion, as their weight savings is
significant, but after 3 years, they are down to about 1/2 the working
time as when they were new. Probably disposables would be
unsatisfactory for that purpose, and NiMH would add significantly to the
weight of an already pretty heavy laptop. It's all in the intended use.

SMS wrote:
While personally I'm a big user of the eneloop batteries (I have three
of the Costco/Sanyo 12 packs), the low-discharge does come at the price
of lower cell capacity because of the technology used to reduce
self-discharge.
However I have read that their internal resistance is lower. Since many
modern devices have some form of switching power supplies, it is very
often Watt hour capacity under load that is more important than Amp hours.

When I was XC skiing on Sunday, there was a couple with a Nikon point
and shoot camera that had the infamous battery door issue. While
technically this is just poor engineering on the part of camera makers,
it is inherent in the design of most AA powered cameras, which use
spring loaded contacts, and make the battery door part of the series
circuit.

I have a Canon camera, a Garmin GPS powered by AAs and several LED
flashlights powered by AAAs and have never had any "door" problems.
Note that while the door may be part of the circuit, there is no need
for the hinge to be part of the circuit.

Ted